Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-25-2012, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Northern Wisconsin
10,379 posts, read 10,917,022 times
Reputation: 18713

Advertisements

I don't know what the OP's problem is, but my guess he or she is looking for a loophole in God's law, where one does not exist. The New Testament is very clear. The greek word, "PORNOS" and its various forms, are typically translated as fornication( KJV and NKJV) or sexually immoral (NIV). Fornication is commonly defined to mean sexual relations between two unmarried people. Sex between a person married and another person other than their spouse is adultery. There are many verses in the NT that clearly condemn with eternal judgment to hell those who are guilty of these sins and are unrepentant. I can't quite figure out what is unclear here. The Old Testament has similar condemnations and the Book of Proverbs warns against going in to visit immoral women. I'll list a few right here. There were even provisions in the law which required marriage if sex preceded marriage. It is not within the will of God to permit sex outside the bonds of marriage. If the OP can't see this I'd suggest they return to school or get their money back because this is clearly taught throughout the Bible.

1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
Rev 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Lev 18:20 " ‘Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife and defile yourself with her.
Lev 18:22 " ‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Dt 22:28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

This last provision of the law is very interesting. She can't claim she was "raped" and its not her fault. They are stuck married to each other once there has been sex, and no divorce under any circumstances.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-25-2012, 09:59 PM
 
112 posts, read 144,621 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Follower Of X View Post
I told you, people got married. This nonsense we have today didn't exist. However thats not to say people didn't do it.
if people did it though, was that contrary to God's word, considering this is not mentioned specifically in the NT?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2012, 10:02 PM
 
112 posts, read 144,621 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
Part of the reason you're not seeing it as being wrong is because you don't understand the meaning of 'terms' in the Scriptures.

Take Matt. 5 for an example:

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:

32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.


* to "put away" is not the same thing as giving the woman a 'bill of divorcement.' It means to tell his wife she must leave his house and yet remain legally married to him. This causes the woman to not be able to re-marry and it is why v. 32 says the man is causing the woman to commit adultery [if she goes ahead and gets married again] and is also why God hates 'putting away.'


Mal 2:16 For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away:

Where else in the NT does it say putting away is different than divorce?

Mt 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.

Again it's important to understand the customs of the day. So why was it 'legal' for Joseph to only put away Mary?

Because they were only betrothed at the time. She was considered his 'wife' the whole time they were betrothed. [Betrothal was legal and binding]. However, in God's eyes they were not consider 'man and wife/one flesh til the marriage was consummated. [Which didn't happen til after Messiah was born].

This shows us along with passages in 1 Corin, Eph. 1 Tim, and Revelation that sex outside of marriage is considered: pornos or porneia and wrong in God's eyes.
this is talking about married couples, or those planning to marry.

but how about 2 single people? - this falls outside of those quotes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2012, 10:08 PM
 
112 posts, read 144,621 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
1 Cor. 7:1 Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2] But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband. 3] The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 4] The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5] Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6] But this I say by way of concession, not of command. 7] Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that. 8] But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. 9] But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.


God designed sex for recreation, as well as for procreation, between a man and a woman within the institution of marriage.

Ok, that seems to have settled it - thanks

No pre-marital sex it is then.

'better to marry than burn with passion' - better than what?

ie: can you burn with passion and still be a Christian?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2012, 10:25 PM
 
1,320 posts, read 1,247,650 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by old-goat View Post
if people did it though, was that contrary to God's word, considering this is not mentioned specifically in the NT?
yes it was. In fact....

John 4 -15 The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw. 16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. 17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: 18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly. 19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. 25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2012, 10:27 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 12,493,260 times
Reputation: 1319
Hebrews 13:4
Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2012, 10:32 PM
 
1,506 posts, read 1,379,980 times
Reputation: 389
OP, you just opened a big can of worms, but your suspicions are not unjustified and this is a very complex issue. I'll post when I have more time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2012, 10:51 PM
 
1,320 posts, read 1,247,650 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrhockney View Post
OP, you just opened a big can of worms, but your suspicions are not unjustified and this is a very complex issue. I'll post when I have more time.
i think the big can of worms has been closed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2012, 11:34 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,230 posts, read 26,447,455 times
Reputation: 16370
Quote:
Originally Posted by old-goat View Post
Ok, that seems to have settled it - thanks

No pre-marital sex it is then.

'better to marry than burn with passion' - better than what?

ie: can you burn with passion and still be a Christian?
You're welcome.

Better than what you ask? Just what it says. It is better to marry than to burn with passion. What Paul is saying is that if one lacks sexual control and can't abstain from sexual intercourse, then he doesn't have the gift of celibacy, and should marry.

Anyone who has simply placed his faith in Jesus Christ for eternal life is a Christian. Listen. Christians are the best people in the world, and Christians are the worst people in the world. Unbelievers fall somewhere in between. The believer's experiental status regarding his spiritual life after salvation has no bearing on the fact that he is positionally in Christ and eternally secure. In other words, you might be a good Christian or you might be a bad Christian. But if you have placed your faith in Christ you are a Christian.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2012, 11:44 PM
 
2,854 posts, read 2,052,927 times
Reputation: 348
in theory the act of consummation IS marriage.

"For the purposes of this deposition, a person engages in sexual relations when the person knowingly engages in or causes:

1. Contact with the genitalia, anus, groin, breast, inner thigh, or buttocks of any person with an intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person;
"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:34 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top