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Old 09-29-2012, 01:17 PM
 
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Those who claim to have been a Christian at one point and then decided to not be a Christian were NEVER a Christian in the first place.
To add to this JAA2310: From a Reformed perspective (well at least some reformers - you know they disagree too) they NEVER could nor will become a christian - they are predestined to Hell for God's glory. So I am fulfilling God' glorious plan by arguing against such things - pretty cool Huh!
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Old 09-29-2012, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,024 posts, read 10,074,842 times
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Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
To add to this JAA2310: From a Reformed perspective (well at least some reformers - you know they disagree too) they NEVER could nor will become a christian - they are predestined to Hell for God's glory. So I am fulfilling God' glorious plan by arguing against such things - pretty cool Huh!
Well, only God knows who the sheep are and who the goats are.
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Old 09-29-2012, 01:54 PM
 
5,495 posts, read 4,371,434 times
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Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
Well, only God knows who the sheep are and who the goats are.
Well then I guess I am a goat for glory!
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Old 09-30-2012, 08:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
From a Reformed believers standpoint, It's not possible to lose your salvation. Without even quoting the bible I will explain why that is. Firstly you will find that the idea is common among those who think that they chose to become Christians out of their own will and volition. Of course bible believing Christians reject that idea and know that salvation is the gift of God and an expression of His grace. It follows that a person who believes that they are Christian because they choose to be can also choose not to be any longer.

People who believe that Salvation can be lost because of one sin or another don't understand the entire Theology of sin and the results of the fall of man upon the nature of the sons and daughters of Adam. The bible clearly teaches us that in our flesh we are totally corrupted. Sin touches us at all of our points. From God's perspective there is nothing good in a man at all. That's why the great prophet could say after glimpsing the Glory of God. "Even my good deeds are as filthy rags in the sight of a HOLY God". The bible also says, "There is NONE righteousness, no not one". That is the universal condition of all mankind.

Once we are saved we still inhabit this"Body of corruption" as Paul puts it. There is NOTHING we can do that gains us any merit in the Eyes of God. You have to understand that concept to be able to understand just what it is that Jesus does for His people. When God looks at me He doesn't see me as the mass of corruption and sin that I am but He sees the perfect righteousness of Christ that has been applied to me through what Jesus did for His people.

There are just so many bible passages that give the Christian complete confidence in His salvation and eternal destiny. I'll just paraphrase a couple of my favorite ones

There is NOTHING that can separate us from the Love of God in Christ Jesus.
He who has begun a good work in you is faithful to bring it to completion.

Those who claim to have been a Christian at one point and then decided to not be a Christian were NEVER a Christian in the first place.

Well, yes. From a truly reformed standpoint, man's salvation is 100% dependent on the sovereign working of God. It holds to the tenet that man, by nature, is spiritually dead, and completely unable, in himself, to embrace the truth of the Gospel unto salvation.

This is the sense of what we read in 1 Corinthians 2:14. It is at least interesting to me how people will try to explain away that verse, when the sense is so clear and straightforward. Verse 13 of this chapter gives us a basis for our understanding of verse 14:

1 Cor 2:12-13
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

The passage below points us in the same direction.

1 Cor 1:18-19
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."

When we consider these verses together, it seems difficult (for me) to still concede any credit to man's ability to "make the right decision" to become saved. By nature, we will perceive the truth of God as foolishness.

I believe, then, that the reference to man's becoming "born again" fits well with the above context. Is this an action that man can impart, himself? It would seem not:

John 1:12-13
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
*13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

How are we to understand this matter of being born again (or born from above...or born of God). Can this action initiate with man? Wouldn't the plain teaching of these verses contradict such an idea?

Here is where I feel the reformed position originates (not to mention the multitude of other verses and doctrines that proceed from this position). Just as is the case with salvation, itself, I believe we must walk very humbly and realize that if we have come to a place where we believe we have understood something correctly, it must also be a matter of God's having opened our understanding.

I believe you are correct when you say that we can have complete confidence, knowing that our salvation originated with God, and will be completed by God unto that final day. He has promised us that He will never leave us or forsake us.

Praise God!
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