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All your responses involve obfuscation and trying to make your religion aligned with Christianity.
If I didn't believe myself to be a Christian, I wouldn't continue to say that I am. That said, Mormonism does not claim to be part of traditional Christianity. Rather, we believe our Church is the re-establishment of the original Church Jesus Christ created. When people make flat out idiotic statements to the effect that Mormonism has nothing in common with Christianity, I call them on it because such statements are lies. Period. Mormonism has a great deal in common with other Christian denominations. We also have a great many differences. Unlike most people on this forum, I am willing to acknowledge both the similarities and the differences.
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Part of growing and being progressive is questioning what a religious body is doing right and wrong, and allowing its members to do the same.
I'm certainly not opposed to questioning some of the LDS Church's policies, and have done so on this forum. On the other hand, the LDS Church does not exist to be considered "progressive." It exists because we believe that the church Jesus Christ established fell into apostasy following His death and the deaths of His apostles. We believe that He alone has the power and authority to re-establish it. Finally, we believe this is what He has done. I'm not asking you or anybody else to believe this, but it is the reason we are who we are. Compromising the foundation upon which the Church is built for the sake of being accepted by the masses is not what we're all about.
I've never heard so much "hubbub" about the LDS church than I have the past year because of the media's obsession with Mitt Romney's religion.
Many people have opinions of the religion LONG before this election because of exposure to those who practice the religion, particularly if in the West. One can also take a Comparative Religions course, read, talk to clergy, talk to practitioners, and do other things to inform themselves. Having Mormon missionaries on a bike wheel up to you and ask if you've heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ is offensive to a Christian of most denominations, because that Gospel is ONLY contained in 4 rather brief books in the New Testament. Those 4 books are the "heart" that pumps life through the rest of the "body," the Bible containing the Old and New Testaments.
Imagine a sheet of paper that had sixteen tiny holes in it. How many needles would be needed to simultaneously fit through all sixteen separate holes? If you said, “sixteen,” you are thinking in terms of "ontological omnipresence.” Fold the paper in such a way that the needle can be inserted through all sixteen holes at once. This represents “functional omnipresence.” God’s power can extend everywhere throughout the universe simultaneously, even though He is physically in heaven. Even though He occupies physical space, He is functionally omnipresent because He has the power to be so.
The Holy Spirit is the third member of the Godhead. As His name implies, He is a person comprised solely of spirit, unlike the other two members of the Godhead (the Father and the Son). He is the means by which we communicate with God, our Father in Heaven. The scriptures say that we must worship Him in spirit and in truth. Since we are physical beings, the only way we can worship Him, communicate with Him or learn from Him is Spirit to spirit. The Holy Spirit testifies of truth. This is the means by which Peter came to realize that Jesus was, in fact, the Christ, Son of God. The Holy Spirit is also the Comforter Jesus promised to send in His absence. Unlike the Father and the Son, both of whom are functionally omnipresent, the Holy Spirit is ontologically omnipresent. It is because of this characteristic, unique to Him alone, that He can simultaneously dwell in our hearts and throughout the universe. In other words, God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ are physical beings who (though the Holy Ghost) function as if they were present everywhere at once, even though they are technically not.
All three Persons of the Godhead are Spirit. That includes the deity of Jesus Christ. As a man, Jesus Christ is in heaven. As God He is everywhere present, as is the Father and the Holy Spirit. Regardless of the Mormon belief, God The Father does not have a physical body. The description of the Ancient of Days - God the Father, in Daniel 7:9 does not mean that the Father actually has a physical body. That was simply an anthropomorphic representation of God the Father in Daniel's vision. And it is not the Holy Spirit who is unique, but rather, it is Jesus Christ who is the Unique Person of the Universe because of His hypostatic union. All three Persons of the Godhead are said to indwell the believer. Not just the Holy Spirit. I can provide the passages.
Last edited by Michael Way; 10-22-2012 at 12:04 AM..
I agree that all three are spirit. I just don't agree that the Father and the Son are solely spirit. Furthermore, we're off topic. None of this has anything to do with the OP. If you wish to discuss the nature of God, why don't you start a new thread. Now, I'm going to bed. Have a nice evening.
Very interesting explanation. While I never thought of God as occupying physical space, I like your analogy of folding a paper and putting the needle through all 16 holes at once. I would say that all Christians and most other religions would agree with that... whatever name one decides to call God, his power can be thought of as being everywhere at once.
It is not simply His power that is everywhere present, but His Person. God is Spirit and fills infinity. That is why God is is said to be both Omnipresent and Omnipotent, as well as Omniscient.
Why does a Mormon or any other denomination have to explain themselves to other Christians? Do non-Mormons feel so insecure that they think exposure to Mormons will cause them to change?
If one is going to proselytize their faith wouldn't it be better to do so by example than to point out what they think are flaws in another person's belief?
This Mormon bashing is ubiquitous among those who would CLAIM to be Christian and following Christ's commands to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't, Wood. The hypocrisy and irony of the exclusivist and judgmental doctrinarians focused on trivial and irrelevant beliefs ABOUT God and Christ is rampant in mainline Christianity. It is more correctly referred to as Bibleanity because of its bible idolatry and unloving focus on judging who is and who is not Christian. The degree to which the churches have so completely missed the mark and the message of Christ's Gospel is mind-boggling.
This Mormon bashing is ubiquitous among those who would CLAIM to be Christian and following Christ's commands to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't, Wood. The hypocrisy and irony of the exclusivist and judgmental doctrinarians focused on trivial and irrelevant beliefs ABOUT God and Christ is rampant in mainline Christianity. It is more correctly referred to as Bibleanity because of its bible idolatry and unloving focus on judging who is and who is not Christian. The degree to which the churches have so completely missed the mark and the message of Christ's Gospel is mind-boggling.
My opinion of who is Christian is a very large group of people. Essentially, it's just about everyone who claims to be a Christian except for the LDS and Jehovah's Witnesses. Whether they are a good Christian is another story. I am hardly a scholar of the Bible, remembering only what I learned in parochial school and from sermons at Mass, when I go. Correct, Christ did say "love one another as I have loved you." That's the most important message, and NOT an easy thing to do. Perhaps the Mormons could do that themselves, for example. I learned, as a kid in a multifaceted area, that the Mormons segregate themselves from the rest of the neighbors, after coming from an exclusively Catholic area where everyone had the same ethnicity. It was an eye-opener and people form opinions of others based on their cumulative life experiences and if they see identifiable patterns. Even though I don't think JWs are Christian, I think they are low maintenance and respect them. They will promptly and graciously excuse themselves if one says "I'm Catholic and that's my faith." I had been working with a JW for a long time, and the only way I found out he was of that faith is when I noticed that we weren't celebrating his birthday, and he said "I don't celebrate it. I'm a Jehovah's Witness." This was a very low-key and well-liked person. Humility is also another hallmark of Christianity.
This Mormon bashing is ubiquitous among those who would CLAIM to be Christian and following Christ's commands to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't, Wood. The hypocrisy and irony of the exclusivist and judgmental doctrinarians focused on trivial and irrelevant beliefs ABOUT God and Christ is rampant in mainline Christianity. It is more correctly referred to as Bibleanity because of its bible idolatry and unloving focus on judging who is and who is not Christian. The degree to which the churches have so completely missed the mark and the message of Christ's Gospel is mind-boggling.
MysticPhD, I could not have put it more eloquently! You are spot on! (This is why I am kind of "church shopping"... I have gone to many churches and up until now, have not found one that aligns with this belief! It's all about "This is what it is or it's wrong and you're going to h e l l for believing otherwise" while focusing on something trivial and/or irrelevant.)
I agree that they are spirit. I just don't agree that the Father and the Son are solely spirit. Furthermore, we're off topic. None of this has anything to do with the OP. If you wish to discuss the nature of God, why don't you start a new thread. Now, I'm going to bed. Have a nice evening.
The title of the thread is 'Mormons, Please explain this.' While the OP asked for one thing to be explained, I asked for another thing to be explained. You made the statement that God resides only in heaven, and I asked you to explain why you as a Mormon hold that belief despite the fact that the Bible reveals God to be omnipresent. You then modified your statement by saying that the Holy Spirit is omnipresent in a ontological sense, while the other two Persons of the Godhead are omnipresent in a functional sense.
You are unable to accept the fact that all three Persons of the Godhead are omnipresent in an absolute sense because of your belief that God the Father has a body. He does not. And it is the humanity of Jesus Christ which posesses a physical resurrected body. Not His deity. As a man, Jesus Christ can be in only one place at a time. But as God, Jesus Christ is everywhere present. Even as the baby in the cradle, Jesus Christ as God filled infinity with His presence.
Now again, believe what you want. But for those who have understanding, I have provided the Biblical perspective which is the true perspective. And I will leave it at this.
Last edited by Michael Way; 10-21-2012 at 11:51 PM..
This is why I am kind of "church shopping"... I have gone to many churches
If you are shopping, what is your criteria? Obviously, there is something you want to find or hear.
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