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Old 10-10-2007, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Newton, NJ (but my heart is in Tennessee)
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What is your perspective of the Word of Faith Movement, also known as the Health & Wealth Gospel? For those of you not familiar with this term, it is a theology popularized by Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland, as well as many preachers on TBN and in Pentecostal churches.

It is very controversial for several reasons. One reason is their teaching that physical healing and financial prosperity is included in the atonement. This means that God wants you to be healthy and wealthy throughout your life. Other controversial teachings include the meaning of faith, positive and negative confessions, the "little Gods" doctrine and the notion that Jesus also died spiritually on the cross.

Some Christians are very serious about these teachings and defend them as they would a major doctrine. Others believe this is a dangerous heresy that has crept into the church. At any rate, it is an interesting debate with passionate adherants on both sides.

Attached is a wikipedia link for more information.

Word of Faith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 10-10-2007, 10:20 AM
 
Location: All around the world.....
2,886 posts, read 7,743,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolfan View Post
What is your perspective of the Word of Faith Movement, also known as the Health & Wealth Gospel? For those of you not familiar with this term, it is a theology popularized by Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland, as well as many preachers on TBN and in Pentecostal churches.

It is very controversial for several reasons. One reason is their teaching that physical healing and financial prosperity is included in the atonement. This means that God wants you to be healthy and wealthy throughout your life. Other controversial teachings include the meaning of faith, positive and negative confessions, the "little Gods" doctrine and the notion that Jesus also died spiritually on the cross.

Some Christians are very serious about these teachings and defend them as they would a major doctrine. Others believe this is a dangerous heresy that has crept into the church. At any rate, it is an interesting debate with passionate adherants on both sides.

Attached is a wikipedia link for more information.

Word of Faith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
doctrine and the notion that Jesus also died spiritually on the cross.

I believe Jesus did die spiritually by the words He spoke to God on the cross.
"Father into your hands I commit my spirit"
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Old 10-10-2007, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Texas
8,669 posts, read 20,964,635 times
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Default Yes, but with balance...

I am in agreement with a lot of it, but with the one caveat that I think "balance" in areas of doctrine is needed. Some teachings which are attributed to "word of faith" I would not be in agreement with at all. I also don't think you can't lump all "word of faith" teachers together. I think some teachers are more balanced than others.
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Old 10-10-2007, 10:48 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
264 posts, read 775,532 times
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I have also heard this called the “Prosperity Ministry” and I have a VERY difficult time with it. I DO believe that God intends for us to be healthy and, perhaps, even wealthy; however, I have seen this “ministry” destroy the church I once attended and has also taken down another church in my hometown.

It’s a long story so I’ll try to keep it short. I was attending a rather fundamental Baptist church. The pastor (call him Pastor X) went to some sort of crusade and was touched by the Holy Spirit (in a Benny Hinn sort of way). He tried to introduce this into the church and was fired. He then started his own church and many of us left the Baptist church to follow him.

Things were going along quite wonderfully. Many people were joining our new church. Several people were healed, myself included. I became involved, with the churches support, in a mission outreach where I witnessed several genuine miraculous events. Something though, just wasn’t right in my spirit. There always seemed to be more emphasis on health and wealth rather than preaching the Gospel and reaching the lost.

Many months passed and things grew steadily worse. Several visiting “prophets” came through with “prophetic messages” but it always seemed these messages were only for the well-to-do in the church. Soon, Pastor X’s sermons exclusively on health and wealth. I remember on instance in which people were asked to come to the front and be prayed over if “you want to wake up tomorrow and find gold dust in your hair and gems under your pillow.” And he was quite serious.
In the end, Pastor X and some of the church officials were caught misusing the churches funds. There was a huge scandal that ended in the closing of the church and the selling off of the property.

I also saw the EXACT same thing happen to a similar church that was preaching the same sort of doctrine. That church also closed it’s doors and has yet to reopen.

All in all, I don’t know what to say about this doctrine other than it just doesn’t sit right with my spirit. I suppose that it isn’t really the doctrine itself that is at fault, but the people who spread it. Most anything can be used for both good and evil purposes.
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Old 10-10-2007, 11:04 AM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,936,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolfan View Post
What is your perspective of the Word of Faith Movement, also known as the Health & Wealth Gospel? For those of you not familiar with this term, it is a theology popularized by Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland, as well as many preachers on TBN and in Pentecostal churches.

It is very controversial for several reasons. One reason is their teaching that physical healing and financial prosperity is included in the atonement. This means that God wants you to be healthy and wealthy throughout your life. Other controversial teachings include the meaning of faith, positive and negative confessions, the "little Gods" doctrine and the notion that Jesus also died spiritually on the cross.

Some Christians are very serious about these teachings and defend them as they would a major doctrine. Others believe this is a dangerous heresy that has crept into the church. At any rate, it is an interesting debate with passionate adherants on both sides.

Attached is a wikipedia link for more information.

Word of Faith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Wow, dolfan, there's a lot to cover there in your post.

First, I think kaykay and wesacat both make very vaild arguments.

That being said, one thing did jump right out at me that do agree with, although basically everything else you mention I do not agree with.

I shared this with another poster on CD via DM but I feel like I can share it here to make my point.

It involves the portion of your post that speaks to 'physical healing being in the atonement'. I do believe that but I don't believe everyone is going to be healed. I do believe that there is some element to physical healing in the atonement....here's the DM I sent, with just a couple of adjustments for public viewing....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207
In short though, I don't slam the door on healing, as some believers do but I also don't kick it wide open and say 'Everybody will be healed' either.

The scriptures on this are quite fascinating.

One thing I've mulled over and over: If the blood of Christ was poured out for forgiveness and payment of my sins for my spiritual healing, what was His body broken for?

I believe, at some level, it was indeed broken for our physical healing. How that works, I'm not sure. But I'm quite sure it applies somewhere.

I spoke to my pastor one time about this scripture from Isaiah 53:

Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.

But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
Now we're SBC and of course SBC is <edited personal comment>.

Anyway, my pastor said "Well, that's not talking about physical ailments." I didn't believe it then but I didn't have a real good counter for him so I just shook my head and kept on going.

Now, I've read the whole bible once and the NT multiple times and the book of Matthew many times. But until I was 'ready', The Lord didn't bring this to scripture to light....Matthew 8:14-17
When Jesus came into Peter's house, he saw Peter's mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever. 15He touched her hand and the fever left her, and she got up and began to wait on him.

When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:
"He took up our infirmities
and carried our diseases."
Who else to tell us what Isaiah meant but Jesus Himself. The same scripture I asked my pastor about was quoted here in Matthew right after several physical healings/deliverances.

Jesus was/is/and always will be a healer.

The church (most churches) just don't operate in a state of faith to receive it.

Does that make sense?
So, while I am not a fan of this Word of Faith movement and believe I believe it's full of corruption and deception, I don't think it's wise to make blanket statements about everything they teach. I think one of the reasons it's so dangerous is because there are portions of Truth mixed in with it.

Hope I didn't get off on the healing thing too much, but I tried to keep it OT.
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Old 10-10-2007, 11:55 AM
 
Location: All around the world.....
2,886 posts, read 7,743,555 times
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Smile For A Better Understanding

On this link at wikipedia.com in the Word Of Faith page is also a project that breaks down and discuss how WOF originates and the the mergers, of Full Gospel
Pentecostalism; Charismatic movement and it's relative offshoots. Here's the link
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:/WikiProject_Charismatic_Christianity

If this link is not correct you can get it from the link (Wikipedia.com) Word Of Faith Movement.
In this type of thing we have to know the whole story, and just because a few preachers came in and perverted the gospel through greed and lust to name a few doesn't make it unbiblical. I try to remember that satan has a counterfeit for everything that God does.
It's in the church period; whatever movement it is just like movements tagging the title "Christian", as to add whatever they want on the end. .

Last edited by yhwhshalomjr; 10-10-2007 at 12:15 PM.. Reason: not to offend any religion
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Old 10-10-2007, 01:22 PM
 
Location: NJ
329 posts, read 1,364,639 times
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Ahhh, also known as he "name it and claim it" messege. Having been discipled in a Faith church I am quite familiar with this doctrine. As KayKay has so eloquently said "balance" is the key. Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Jerry Savelle, Marilyn Hickey, Derek Prince, RW Smambach, Fred Price to name a few all preach this messege. I assure you it is all falls in line with the Word of God and I believe that it is sound doctrine. It is not exclusive to my beliefs because we were taught balance. I know that it has been ridiculed and some propenents of the Faith messege are just plainly "off-the-wall" with it, but I can only say eat the hay and leave the sticks. If you dont believe in healing for today, then Bless God stay sick. If you don't think that the "wealth of the sinners is laid up for the just", then Bless God stay poor. You are only limited by your lack of Faith.
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Old 10-10-2007, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Indiana
1,250 posts, read 3,273,585 times
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This is the problem that I have with it...sometimes we don't get what we asked for because God said no. It wasn't because of a lack of faith at all. Like I've said before, (actually it is a saying of my pastor), God answers prayers in three ways: Yes, No, and You've got to be kidding me!

All joking aside, I believe that all will be healed, just not necessarily on this side of Heaven. I don't think this always is a matter of faith. God may have plans to use the sickness/injury/deformity for His glory. Who are we to condemn the person afflicted? Who are we to decide that they don't have enough faith? Who are we?
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Old 10-10-2007, 01:53 PM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,936,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJTina View Post
Ahhh, also known as he "name it and claim it" messege. Having been discipled in a Faith church I am quite familiar with this doctrine. As KayKay has so eloquently said "balance" is the key. Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Jerry Savelle, Marilyn Hickey, Derek Prince, RW Smambach, Fred Price to name a few all preach this messege. I assure you it is all falls in line with the Word of God and I believe that it is sound doctrine. It is not exclusive to my beliefs because we were taught balance. I know that it has been ridiculed and some propenents of the Faith messege are just plainly "off-the-wall" with it, but I can only say eat the hay and leave the sticks. If you dont believe in healing for today, then Bless God stay sick. If you don't think that the "wealth of the sinners is laid up for the just", then Bless God stay poor. You are only limited by your lack of Faith.
Well, I hope my post didn't come across as though I was slamming the door on ALL this doctrine teaches.

Also, are you sure that it "all falls in line with the Word of God"?

I'm not challenging you, NJTina , I'm earnestly asking.

I mean Jesus says blessed are the poor in spirit, teaches we should sell everything we own and give to the poor, teaches that the servant shouldn't be greater than the master, and Jesus wasn't rich, at least not by worldly standards.

These things are many of the things I'm earnestly seeking God on along with the charismatic gifts that seem to cause divisions (tongues, prophecy, etc).

If Jesus never asked or expected worldly wealth from The Father, and we're supposed to have the mind of Christ, can you help me understand the biblical basis for us believing for something Christ Jesus never had?

I hope you see I'm not being sarcastic. I'd love some insight here.
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Old 10-10-2007, 01:58 PM
 
3,086 posts, read 5,834,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dojilynn View Post
Who are we?
Exactly. God has the ability to heal us, and it is scriptural to pray for healing. Whether He will or not, is up to Him, but because Jesus died for our sins, we can come to God, thru Jesus, and make our requests known unto Him, knowing His will is best.


As far as prosperity, the following verses are very important:
6 ¶ But godliness with contentment is great gain.
7 [For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
(this last sunday, our minister spoke about "godliness with contentment". He brought out the point that the root of contentment was thankfulness... and this is all tied in with being forgiven by God. Can we be godly and not content?)
From what I read in the NT, with the many warnings against financial prosperity and riches of this world, I do not believe that Christ's death was for financial security at all. "The rain falls on the just and on the unjust." Financial security tends to take away, not add, to security in Christ, IMO...

Last edited by cg81; 10-10-2007 at 02:07 PM..
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