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Trying to rein it back in ... You agree that your wicked nature is being done away with by Christ in you, yes?
Can you see how so many of the passages that you believe apply to 2 different groups of people (even if you are right) could also be seen to apply to our 2 natures?
Trying to rein it back in ... You agree that your wicked nature is being done away with by Christ in you, yes?
Can you see how so many of the passages that you believe apply to 2 different groups of people (even if you are right) could also be seen to apply to our 2 natures?
Not with the proper context. Since unbelievers are sent to the place prepared for the fallen angels, then fate of the unbeliever will be that of the fallen angels (Jude 1:6) And that is the point of all this tangent ....
Again as far as you attempting to make this about myself ... context of scriptures determines how it is applied of the passages.
Not with the proper context. Since unbelievers are sent to the place prepared for the fallen angels, then fate of the unbeliever will be that of the fallen angels (Jude 1:6) And that is the point of all this tangent ....
And you believe that over and above what is written in Colossians -- that all in heaven and earth are being reconciled to God -- because you view all scripture through the lens of eternal torment and an angry god.
We all have to pick a lens to view the bible through Twin. I'll view it through the promise in Colossians that God is reconciling all to himself.
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Again as far as you attempting to make this about myself ... context of scriptures determines how it is applied of the passages.
Well, I wasn't trying to make it "about you", Twin. I was just looking for some common ground. I'm not sure why you seem not to want to say that you believe that Christ in you is overcoming your sinful nature. I thought that was one thing we could easily agree on.
And you believe that over and above what is written in Colossians -- that all in heaven and earth are being reconciled to God -- because you view all scripture through the lens of eternal torment and an angry god.
We all have to pick a lens to view the bible through Twin. I'll view it through the promise in Colossians that God is reconciling all to himself.
Well, I wasn't trying to make it "about you", Twin. I was just looking for some common ground. I'm not sure why you seem not to want to say that you believe that Christ in you is overcoming your sinful nature. I thought that was one thing we could easily agree on.
You have a beautiful soul, Pleroo . . . but you can NOT reason with unreasoning credulity. What you say about Colossians is true and undeniable . . . except for those who do not reason . . . and just believe in what they have been taught all their lives.
Trying to rein it back in ... You agree that your wicked nature is being done away with by Christ in you, yes?
Can you see how so many of the passages that you believe apply to 2 different groups of people (even if you are right) could also be seen to apply to our 2 natures?
Unfortunately Pleroo most of us believe some strange stuff when we say we believe in Jesus. We will admit that we sin still, although we don't like to do so,( unless you are a commandment keeper and its ignorant sin which Jesus looks over), but will not acknowledge that the sin commited by us is the same sin(sin is sin)commited by those looked down upon as unbelievers, the unbelievers sin is wicked ours isn't.
He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.
Unfortunately Pleroo most of us believe some strange stuff when we say we believe in Jesus. We will admit that we sin still, although we don't like to do so,( unless you are a commandment keeper and its ignorant sin which Jesus looks over), but will not acknowledge that the sin commited by us is the same sin(sin is sin)commited by those looked down upon as unbelievers, the unbelievers sin is wicked ours isn't.
Exactly. And though God is love, and all that is good comes from God, when those who are not Christians do good and act in love, somehow it's not really love or good or of God. Apparently evil can also create good and act out of love?
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He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.
Dear Mike, the Luke 1:33 verse is taken from Daniel here:
Dan 7:14 to Him is granted jurisdiction and esteem and a kingdom, and all the peoples and leagues and language-groups shall serve Him; His jurisdiction, as an eonian jurisdiction, will not pass away, and His kingdom shall not be confined."
So "His kindom will have no end" means simply that "His kingdom shall not be confined to just one locale (i.e., Israel). It will not have its end or boundary in Israel but will be world-wide. Get it?
Daniel 7:14 goes on to say that HIS DOMINION IS AN EVERLASTING DOMINION WHICH WILL NOT PASS AWAY. AND HIS KINGDOM IS ONE WHICH WILL NOT BE DESTROYED. I already showed you Revelation 22:1 in which Jesus is shown on the throne with the Father after His Millennial reign has ended. And His reign will be over all of creation throughout the unending eternal future.
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The phrase "eon of the eon or "age of the age" does not mean endless any more than "King of kings" means endless kings.
Yes it does. The phrase is an emphatic expression of eternity.
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That's correct. Jesus has not given up the reign in Revelation because it does not reveal the ending of the final eon. That was given to Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:22-28. All mankind are not subjected to Christ in Revelation as they are in the 1 Corinthians 15:22-28 passage.
Jesus gives up His Millennial reign which is what all you people who think that He will cease to reign refer to. After the Millennial reign is over, Jesus is on the throne with the Father for all eternity. It is His mediatorial reign during the Millennium which will come to an end.
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Moses was called God by God too.
Jesus told the disciples He is not their Father nor their God in John 20:17. Christ is allowed to carry the title God since He is a subjector like His God.
Only the true God can create the universe. Jesus Christ created the universe.
In ancient Israel, men in authority were sometimes referred as gods. But not in the sense of deity. Jesus' preexistence is well established in Scripture.
Jesus was speaking from the standpoint of His humanity in John 20:17. Since the time of the virgin birth, Jesus Christ is in hypostatic union. He is both eternal and infinite God and true humanity in one Person forevermore.
That is just plain made up that He called God His God and said He was ascending to the disciples' God because He stated that from the standpoint of His humanity.
In Revelation He reiterates this by saying this:
Rev_3:2 Become watchful, and establish the rest who were about to be dying; for I have not found your acts completed in the sight of My God."
Rev_3:12 '"The one who is conquering, him will I be making a pillar in the temple of My God, and he may be coming out nevermore, and I will be writing on him the name of My God,and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which is descending out of heaven from My God, and My new name." Quit the BSing Mike.
Jesus Christ is in hypostatic union forever, as already stated. God the Father is the God of Jesus Christ as man.
*** Did Jesus Christ create all that has been created? YES or NO!!!
If you say 'YES', and yet deny that Jesus Christ is God, then you are saying that someone other than God created the universe. See Genesis 1:1.
If you say 'NO', then you deny what John 1:1-3 and Col. 1:16-17 say.
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It actually says "eonian life" not "eternal life.
It says "eonian life," not "eternal life."
No, it means that they will get to live through the duration of the next two eons and will never perish during those two eons.
It says eternal life. The very same life that is in Jesus Christ who is God.
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If they have eternal life why do the two prophets in Revelation get killed?
You are failing to distinguish between physical death which refers to the separation of the soul from the body, and eternal life which is imputed to the believer at the moment he believes in Christ. At physical death, the body dies and the soul and spirit goes into the presence of the Lord.
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Mike, you have swallowed Platonism hook, line and sinker when it comes to the immortality of the soul.
It is clearly revealed in Matthew 10:28 that physical death does not kill the soul. The soul survives the death of the body. The soul is immortal.
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So, to reiterate:
Christ reigns for ever.
All the evers end.
Christ is God only in the sense that He is allowed that title due to His subjecting all mankind.
Christ said He is not the disciple's God. Even if Mike says Christ was misinformed when He said that.
Do not imply that I said something that I never said Eusebius. I never said that Christ was misinformed.
Jesus Christ will reign forever. Eternity does not end. It is clearly stated that His kingdom will not end (Luke 1:33). It will not pass away, it will not be destroyed (Daniel 7:14).
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It is significent also that the Lamb is pictured on the throne (mentioned also in v. 3) This makes it clear that 1 Corinthians 15:24, which states that Christ ''hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority and power,'' does not mean that Christ's reign on the throne will end but that it will change its character. Christ is King of kings and Lord of lords (cf. Rev. 17:14; 19:16) for all eternity.
[The Bible Knowledge Commentary, New Testament, An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty, p. 987.] It was John F. Walvoord who did the commentary on the book of Revelation. *****
It is the cults who deny that Jesus Christ is God, and that the believer does not go to heaven when he dies. You may or may not be a member of some cult, but some of your beliefs are certainly cultish.
I have a question, do you believe that all humans AND fallen angels will be saved or just humans. I ask because the word behind everlasting in Jude 1:6 is not aion, aionios or aionion but "aidios". Doesn't aidios mean everlasting?
Weymouth new testament:
"And angels those who did not keep the position originally assigned to them, but deserted their own proper abode He reserves in everlasting bonds, in darkness, in preparation for the judgement of the great day."
Young's Literal Translation:
"messengers also, those who did not keep their own principality, but did leave their proper dwelling, to a judgment of a great day, in bonds everlasting, under darkness He hath kept,"
Hi BC God will reconcile all to himself , including angels and even Satan.
@Eusebius if Jesus isn't God then what is Jesus to you?
Jesus is the Son of God and Son of Man. He is not the God Who sent Him into the world. He perfectly mirrors God and so in that respect it is not improper to worship Him.
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), but will not acknowledge that the sin commited by us is the same sin(sin is sin)commited by those looked down upon as unbelievers, the unbelievers sin is wicked ours isn't.
