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Old 11-12-2012, 06:01 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Isaiah 66:24:

And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.


Many early Church fathers, such as Tertullian, Augustine and later on Calvin, Edwards.etc rejoiced at the prospect of viewing the suffering of the damned from Heaven. I won't repeat what they said, but some even say that it will bring a feeling of joy to them. How many Christians here respect such men?

How do you feel about looking at the suffering of the damned in hell while in heaven? I mean it seems a clearly established belief in the early Church, and there's the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man. Almost a smug, 'I told you so'...

Will God/Jesus, the Angels and the saints look into this fiery pit of sulphur or whatever it really is, and see these souls/bodies (supernaturally ressurrected for the SOLE PURPOSE OF SUFFERING!) watching their screams of agony, like some kind of freak show or Roman circus? Can you truly imagine the merciful Lord and Saviour doing this? Will he be enjoying it? Will believers enjoy it when they see their relatives, their family members, and their fellow humans in such unbelievable pain and praise God?

If you believe that the verse I quoted refers to this, it's not an easy one to escape. There's no pity, just that they'll be loathed. How does anyone who believes God truly loves everyone, even those who send themselves to Hell, reconcile this? 'I love you but I'm going to torture you forever and watch for WHAT REASON?' Sadistic pleasure? Is God not a God of goodness, love, mercy...even Satan wouldn't be endlessly amused by human suffering, I don't think, so why the flip would a good God be? It boggles the mind.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Southwest Arkansas
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It's us looking upon our own selves and seeing the bad we've done and being ashamed
Not a literal torture show
Only Hilter would get kicks out of such evil
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:12 PM
 
Location: East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onceahogalwaysahog View Post
It's us looking upon our own selves and seeing the bad we've done and being ashamed
Not a literal torture show
Only Hilter would get kicks out of such evil
That's to much of a balanced view to be believed.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Florida
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I don't respect the views of those "renowned men of faith" you named. They obviously had not by that time had an encounter with the real God.

To love suffering is sick and twisted, obviously.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onceahogalwaysahog View Post
It's us looking upon our own selves and seeing the bad we've done and being ashamed
Not a literal torture show
Only Hilter would get kicks out of such evil
I agree, we do look upon this suffering in hell on a daily basis. Some of us must turn our faces away from it at times in order to not despair of hope.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:40 PM
 
Location: under a rock
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The bible is replete with violence and other horrors against humanity. It's one of the greatest graphic novels ever written. Why wouldn't the believers hunger for a little more of that bloodlust once they enter the heavenly domains? It reminds me of ,I believe it was in Luke, where Jesus is telling one of his parables and at the end he tells those listening that those enemies(remember you're either with em or against em) that wish not for him(Jesus) to reign over them....that they are to bring those said enemies to him and slay them at Jesus' feet. Getting to watch your enemies burn for eternity and writhe in pain is just icing on the cake!
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busterkeaton View Post
The bible is replete with violence and other horrors against humanity. It's one of the greatest graphic novels ever written. Why wouldn't the believers hunger for a little more of that bloodlust once they enter the heavenly domains? It reminds me of ,I believe it was in Luke, where Jesus is telling one of his parables and at the end he tells those listening that those enemies(remember you're either with em or against em) that wish not for him(Jesus) to reign over them....that they are to bring those said enemies to him and slay them at Jesus' feet. Getting to watch your enemies burn for eternity and writhe in pain is just icing on the cake!
Good thing it was a parable. Too bad when people take parables literally.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:47 PM
 
Location: under a rock
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Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Good thing it was a parable. Too bad when people take parables literally.
Parables like any story are filled with truths and are wonderful gateways into the psyches' of their authors.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:26 PM
 
14,987 posts, read 7,526,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busterkeaton View Post
The bible is replete with violence and other horrors against humanity. It's one of the greatest graphic novels ever written. Why wouldn't the believers hunger for a little more of that bloodlust once they enter the heavenly domains? It reminds me of ,I believe it was in Luke, where Jesus is telling one of his parables and at the end he tells those listening that those enemies(remember you're either with em or against em) that wish not for him(Jesus) to reign over them....that they are to bring those said enemies to him and slay them at Jesus' feet. Getting to watch your enemies burn for eternity and writhe in pain is just icing on the cake!

I don't know ... I think I'm pretty familiar with Jesus' parables and I sure don't remember anything like that.

In both Matthew 12 and Luke 11 it is recorded that Jesus said, "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters." But nothing about slaying anyone at his feet. I mean, people poured oil on his feet, they sat at his feet and listened to his teaching, they even fell at his feet to give him thanks for healing ... and then, Jesus washed other people's feet. But I simply can't recall any time when he said anything about bringing his enemies to him so they could be slain at his feet.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:26 PM
 
14,987 posts, read 7,526,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busterkeaton View Post
Parables like any story are filled with truths and are wonderful gateways into the psyches' of their authors.



Well, you had me curious. I think you got your stories mixed up a bit because the "with me/against me" bit is elsewhere (per my last post), but I did find what you were talking about. Luke 19 and Matt 25. The nobleman in the Luke parable does ask for his enemies who to be brought and slain before him. (In Matthew the servant is to be thrown into outer darkness. Both are, as you said, parables, and Jesus gives no explanation for either parable, so it's up for discussion.)

I do find it interesting that immediately prior to telling this parable in Luke the "righteous" Jewish crowd was upset with Jesus because he was eating with Zacchaeus, a sinner ... shock and horror . Jesus told Zachcaeus that he had come to save that which was lost. Hardly sounds like somebody interested in going around slaying people. Then the expectation the self-righteous crowd had about the coming of the kingdom is mentioned, and then Jesus told his parable.

Jesus had a whole lot to say to the self-righteous religious people throughout his ministry, often in parables, indicating that even though they thought they were all that and a bag of chips, the kindgdom/reign that they thought they were supposed to inherit wouldn't be theirs after all because they had mishandled it and misunderstood it's purpose (to save that which was lost).

So, the slaying thing ... I'm not seeing it the way you do. Jesus' "psyche" and the kingdom was all about saving the lost, but the people who had been entrusted with that message of salvation were, instead, intent on hogging their precious kingdom and keeping it from those they deemed unworthy. Those were the servants in the parable who were considered to be enemies of the kingdom. They just didn't get that the message of the kingdom is one of UNCONDITIONAL LOVE AND ACCEPTANCE and they, with their unmerciful and judgmental hearts, were destined to reap what they had sown.

Last edited by Pleroo; 11-12-2012 at 07:37 PM..
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