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Old 12-06-2012, 09:46 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,072 posts, read 26,274,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
It is still a meritorious act, mike, the way you explain it...So, where does repentance come from or regeneration?...
No, it is not. And your inability to understand that does not speak well for you. I have said that I am done explaining this on this thread. Readers can refer back to posts #4, 32, 47, 59, 67, 77, 177, and the comment I made on 198 for what I have said about the matter.

As for you Richard, you have cultish beliefs such as Jesus Christ is not God, the believer doesn't go to heaven when he dies, and that the Church is under the law. You refuse to listen to anyone other than yourself, and so I am not inclined to give you any serious attention. My time is better spent.

Last edited by Michael Way; 12-06-2012 at 09:59 AM..
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
8,057 posts, read 12,824,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Many people do not understand the distinction between the capacity to have faith and actually having faith.
Here is a lay person's analogy of what you are describing here. You are destitute, poor, bankrupt, owe everybody you know and have NOTHING. It's like God put a million dollars in your bank account. You did not earn it, did not do anything to merit it. But if you don't pull out the check book and sign your name and pay the bills, you will continue to be in that same poor state of debt and bankruptcy. Everything has already been taken care of but you don't use your faith (writing the check) and remain in the state you were in.

I don't see why this is so hard to grasp.
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:49 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,945,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No, it is not. And your inability to understand that does not speak well for you. I have said that I am done explaining this on this thread. Readers can refer back to posts #4, 32, 47, 59, 67, 77, 177, and the comment I made on 198 for what I have said about the matter.

As for you Richard, you have cultish beliefs such as Jesus Christ is not God, the believer doesn't go to heaven when he dies, and that the Church is under the law. You refuse to listen to anyone other than yourself, and so I am not inclined to give you any serious attention. My time is better spent.
If one receives something for doing something, then it is earned...As for Torah, Yeshua Himself said that none of it would pass away until Heaven and Earth pass away, how do you get around this one?...It is black and white, you can't twist it...Heaven and Earth are still here, so, according to Yeshua's statement, what does that mean for Torah?...The only reason you do not want to give serious attention here is that you realize that I am not one you can pull the wool over on like so many...I have actually had my questions answered by the Scriptures, not by you or some other man...I have actually done the research, not being lazy and asking others to tell me the answer...Over the past 20+ years I have read many books regarding Biblical interpretation with many differing from one another and have come away with more questions than answers, until I put them all away and relied soley on the Bible...So, reading all that litrature gives me a base to see through much of what you state and where it is coming from...there are over 23K 'Christian' denominations throughout the world, each one stating that they have the complete Truth and the others are wrong, what makes you so special?...I stll haven't seen anyone give an answer for Isaiah 7:14-16 yet...
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:49 AM
 
303 posts, read 429,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Right now, I just want to address this ^^^.


I didn't say that you are missing out on hope. I said you are missing out on a very specific hope: the hope of Christ in us in the here and now. Granted, that's a biggie, but it doesn't mean I think you have NO hope.
I see the hope of Christ in me, in the here and now through the good I do in this world...but it is incomplete for there is still sin within me....I am not yet created in his heavenly image....But I look forward to the day He will be complete/ALL in me. In us all...No more sin!!!
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:06 AM
 
303 posts, read 429,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
Grace is given to be able seek. Salvation is a matter of daily adding to your spirit through prayer/seeking and then obeying what you know to be true as given to you by Grace. It is the process of adding more of Christ to ones nature first by asking and then obediance by the Grace given. Jesus said to take up the cross daily and follow so that the Kingdom would grow in the spirit unto a mature tree full of the fruit of righteousness.

2PET 1:2-10 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as His divine power has given unto us all things that pertain unto Life and Godliness, through the knowledge of Him that has called us to Glory [Beauty of Character] and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that you shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacks these things is blind, and can not see afar off, and has forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if you do these things, you shall never fall:
The new heart is given to seek....Grace is undeserved mercy, meaning you did nothing to obtain God's forgiveness. I can add nothing, not even more of Christ, for it is God who is doing all the work in me. He adds, as he desires. No one can and of their own choose to obey God...God must first change the heart of man in order for any of us to obey....this is what grace is all about.

Think of it in terms of trees....they cannot move on their own but as the wind blows it moves the branches wherever it blows. This is how the Spirit of God works in us, it moves us however he pleases. It moves us towards faith, it moves us toward virtue, knowledge, kindness, charity etc.

He that is lacking of anything is blind....if someone's knowledge is incomplete then he is blind. No one has complete knowledge of God so we are all blind and as he allows us the see more, our knowledge increases, but no one will have full knowledge until he raises us up again and pours his Spirit full measure within us ALL. This is when we shall no longer fall.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:23 AM
 
303 posts, read 429,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Like I said Cimaroon we can quote scripture in disagreement until the cows come home. You believe we are being woken up out of death. We are either alive or dead, not one foot in the grave.

Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. Isaiah 46:9.

Oh that I were as in months past, as in the days when God preserved me;

When his lamp shined upon my head, and when by his light I walked through darkness;

As I was in the days of my youth, when the secret of God was upon my tent.
Job 29:2-4
The tent is not the earthly tent referred to in the New Testament, its who we are and that tent( who we really are) as never been separated from God.



God is bringing us into remembrance of who we are. Abraham was always Abraham, he just got called Abram, we have always been "I am God", we just got called a beast and believed it, and manifested the nature of the beast, because we are what we believe.
We are all dead, this is why we return to the dust of the earth for God said:

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

This means we must love everyone. You cannot love anyone differently. In other words, you cannot love your mother more than you love Hitler.

Love shows no favoritism. It is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged (this means everything Hitler or even Osama bin laden did was wiped clean, no more record of it, they are forgiven). It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. Love never gives up (never ever), never loses faith (never ever), is always hopeful (always), and endures through every circumstance (no matter how bad the circumstance).

Until we can love like this, we have not yet passed from death to life. But when we die and are raised again we will have perfect love within us for everyone. This is when we will know that we have passed from death to everlasting life.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:14 AM
 
303 posts, read 429,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
LOL. Oh come on now, cimaroon. Stop splitting hairs my friend. You understood the point, I'm sure.
Actually I am not sure I do....I know of no man who can will themselves to physically fly; to believe it in their minds, jump off a building and sore. Why are you using a physical apparatus, I thought you believe that it is all in your mind. If you believe the human body can fly....then your belief is telling me it should fly not using anything but the mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
The point wasn't about waiting on God, it's about not waiting on physical death to be our savior.
Physical death is apart of the process of being saved. It is entering into rest, and ceasing from our own works (Hebrews 4:10). When God burns off the dross (the flesh), cleansing us and showing us how to be still (at rest) and watch him do his work. It is when he shows us that we have absolutely no part in our salvation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
If you are certain that you must remain chained to the earth/beast nature prior to your physical death, then that is what you will experience. I believe that we may soar in the heavens by the power of Christ in us.
Our soul is within the boundaries of this fleshy body, you cannot physically step outside of it. We only completely escape it when we die; when our flesh is consumed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
I do find it difficult to understand why it is so important to you to convince others that they are beasts.
Think about it....we all don't have knowledge of Christ, so how do you convince someone who doesn't believe, that they need a savior in Christ? What about others who see Christ as being perfect, how do you convince them that they are exactly as he is when they see themselves sin? Christ didn't sin. What about a mother who has watched someone rape and murder her little girl, how do you convince that woman that the man that did this horrible act is at present the image of Christ? Do you honestly think they will see it that way? They are seeing nothing but a beast, but the beast is not just a murderer or a rapist, the beast is also a liar, impatient, unkind, faithless, etc. We all have some attributes of the beast, this is how we know we are all the same and if he saves one of us (the impatient) he will save all of us (even the murderer or unbeliever). Freedom only comes when we know the truth. We are not in his image, We are in need of his salvation, We have obtain it based on his promise to deliver us...no matter what we have done or will do. One day we will be in his exact likeness...perfect as he is perfect. One day the things that plague us will plague us no more....that's hope and we are ALL in need of it (from the impatient to the murderer). Everyone of us, no matter how great you believe you are.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:25 AM
 
303 posts, read 429,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
Mike, thank you for providing the only solid theology in this thread. Just wanted you to know that your effort is appreciated, despite the lack of support from anyone else.

I long for good solid study and an internet discussion group. However, this Christian thread attracts such odd bedfellows, it gets me down. You are a breath of fresh air here and have much more patience than me. Blessings, brother.
The only one that will provide you with solid theology is God.

1 John 2:27

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

For Christ said:

John 5:44
How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

If you long for a good solid study then go to God...it is what I did...no man can teach you his ways, because the way we would do things is certainly not the way he does it. This is something I have surely come to understand.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:32 AM
 
303 posts, read 429,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
People who think that faith in a salvific sense comes from God simply cannot seem to understand that since salvation is conditioned upon faith in Christ - trusting in His finished work on the cross, if faith came from God, then God would be directly responsible for withholding faith from those who perish.
Is God is directly responsible for hardening your heart so you will not understand and turn to him for healing?

Romans 11:32
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

God himself has imprisoned everyone in unbelief....he did it so that he could have mercy on everyone. Why would anyone of us need mercy...his undeserved kindness...if we believed. We would be doing his will so there would be no need for mercy.

John 12:40
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Exodus 4:21
The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go.

Exodus 9:12
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses.

Romans 9:18
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

If someone's heart is hardened, then they will not understand with their heart and if they do not understand with their heart then they cannot choose him and be healed.

Who does the scriptures say harden the heart of man? It says God.
So God is directly responsible for hardening your heart so you will not understand and turn to him for healing.


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Old 12-07-2012, 11:34 AM
 
303 posts, read 429,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
This of course contradicts the fact that God does not desire that anyone perish, but that all men be saved. And yet, as the Bible makes clear, not all men will be saved.
Where does the bible make it clear that not all men will be saved?

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