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I am in Christ and Christ is in me, but I am not Christ.
Christ is in God and God is in Christ, but Christ is not God.
Christ was with God, in the beginning. He was begotten from God, but not God.
I am a daughter of God, by the Grace of God, not begotten.
This has been my belief since I can remember and I never had a problem with my fellow Christian church members in the rw telling me I could not be a real Christian because of that. I understand that for most here I am not a "real Christian"
but only God sees what is in my heart.
Miss Blue, John 1:1 to which you refer when you say that Christ was with God in the beginning, also says that Jesus Christ (the Word) WAS God. Not that He is the Father, who is the first Person of the Trinity, but that He is the Son who is the Second Person of the Trinity.
It was God who brought all things into existence as stated in Gen. 1:1. It was Jesus Christ who brought all things into existence as stated in John 1:3 and Col. 1:16-17.
Since God brought all things into existence, and Jesus Christ brought all things into existence, then Jesus Christ is God just as John 1:1 and Phil 2:5-8 say that He is. I hope that you will give that some thought.
I am in Christ and Christ is in me, but I am not Christ.
Christ is in God and God is in Christ, but Christ is not God.
Christ was with God, in the beginning. He was begotten from God, but not God.
I am a daughter of God, by the Grace of God, not begotten.
I understand that for most here I am not a "real Christian" but only God sees what is in my heart.
Thank you, Miss Blue, for that beautiful expression coming from a true Christian.
One who does not follow the fallacies of the majority, but knows what is in their heart.
Since God brought all things into existence, and Jesus Christ brought all things into existence, then Jesus Christ is God just as John 1:1 and Phil 2:5-8 say that He is. I hope that you will give that some thought.
Mike, I have been giving this some thought, some studying, searching some debate, some friendly discussion and a whole lot of praying on the trinity since I was old enough to question probably for over 50 years. Man has not been able to convince me otherwise. I have been led to more verses that have convinced me Jesus is not His own father than verses claiming He is 3 in one.
I learned many years ago that I would have to separate the God/Creator I believe in and His begotten son Jesus from the ancient religions of man who worshipped many Gods. I just feel that in order to satisfy the many God belief that man invented the Trinity"( three in one God) in order to satisfy and bring others into a doctrine that is not in scripture (imo) They seemed to have forgotten that Gods Son was sent to save us from our sins which included having no other God[s] before Me
I don't claim I am right and don't claim anyone else is wrong. As I often say. God is the only judge of hearts and souls. I truly believe that belief/nonbelief in the trinity or not is not a requirement for showing Christ through our words and deeds...or for following Christ and being called Chrisrtian..
The Trinitarian argument appears to be reasonable on the surface, especially to those who support it.
But it is based on a single-verse or two, which I have been informed on many occasions – is unreliable!
"You cannot build a doctrine on a few verses of Scripture."
Miss Blue, John 1:1 to which you refer when you say that Christ was with God in the beginning, also says that Jesus Christ (the Word) WAS God. Not that He is the Father, who is the first Person of the Trinity, but that He is the Son who is the Second Person of the Trinity.
It was God who brought all things into existence as stated in Gen. 1:1. It was Jesus Christ who brought all things into existence as stated in John 1:3 and Col. 1:16-17.
Since God brought all things into existence, and Jesus Christ brought all things into existence, then Jesus Christ is God just as John 1:1 and Phil 2:5-8 say that He is. I hope that you will give that some thought.
Ya mean this Mike?...
Col 1:16 For all things were created in Him, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth, the visible and the invisible; whether thrones, or lordships, or rulers, or authorities, all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17 And He is before all things, and all things have subsisted in Him.
It doesn't say by Him....
Read Phil. 2:9, and ask yourself why, if He was God, that God would highly exalt Him, if, in fact, He was already God...
Ephesians 1:3-6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love; having predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.
Mike, I have been giving this some thought, some studying, searching some debate, some friendly discussion and a whole lot of praying on the trinity since I was old enough to question probably for over 50 years. Man has not been able to convince me otherwise. I have been led to more verses that have convinced me Jesus is not His own father than verses claiming He is 3 in one.
I learned many years ago that I would have to separate the God/Creator I believe in and His begotten son Jesus from the ancient religions of man who worshipped many Gods. I just feel that in order to satisfy the many God belief that man invented the Trinity"( three in one God) in order to satisfy and bring others into a doctrine that is not in scripture (imo) They seemed to have forgotten that Gods Son was sent to save us from our sins which included having no other God[s] before Me
I don't claim I am right and don't claim anyone else is wrong. As I often say. God is the only judge of hearts and souls. I truly believe that belief/nonbelief in the trinity or not is not a requirement for showing Christ through our words and deeds...or for following Christ and being called Chrisrtian..
Miss Blue, as I stated, the fact that Jesus Christ is God does not mean that He is the Father. They are two different Persons within the triune Godhead. The mistake you are making is thinking that for Jesus Christ to be God He must be the same Person as the Father. God is one in His essence but is three in Persons.
I assure you that the writers of Scripture were not writing the doctrines of men. And no one who understands that God is triune has forgotten that Jesus was sent to go to the cross for our sins.
The Scriptures state that the Father is God, that Jesus Christ is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. This is plainly stated in the New Testament. The plurality of God is even shown in the Old Testament.
Just as His title 'Son of Man' refers to His humanity, so also His title 'Son of God' refers to His deity. Jesus is the unique Son of God. While believers are adopted sons of God, no one is 'the Son of God' in the unique way that Jesus Christ is. And the gospel of John was written by John to emphasize His deity.
And consider also, that since in the beginning there was only God, and Jesus (the Word) was with God in the beginning and is said in John 1:1 to be God, that He has to be God.
But no one can be convinced against their will. And people will believe what they choose to believe. But yes, those who say that Jesus Christ is not God, are wrong. Nevertheless, you have the right to believe what you want to believe. But consider what Jesus said concerning Himself in John 8:24 and compare it with John 8:58.
I don't want to turn this thread into a debate. I was simply hoping to get people to open their eyes to what the verses I provided in the OP are actually saying.
Col 1:16 For all things were created in Him, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth, the visible and the invisible; whether thrones, or lordships, or rulers, or authorities, all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17 And He is before all things, and all things have subsisted in Him.
It doesn't say by Him....
I have already covered what 'through Him' means in the OP.
Quote:
Read Phil. 2:9, and ask yourself why, if He was God, that God would highly exalt Him, if, in fact, He was already God...
That passage, Phil 2:5-9 TELLS you why Jesus was exalted. It also tells you that Jesus Christ existed in the form of God which means that He was God.
In His high priestly prayer (john 17), Jesus asked the Father to glorify Him with the glory that He had had with the Father before the world was (in eternity past). Jesus had veiled His glory when He incarnated. And now, about to complete His mission with regard to the First Advent, He prayed to the Father that He might be glorified.
Now again, this thread is not intended as a debate. If you choose not to acknowledge what the passages say concerning the deity of Jesus Christ, that is your affair.
No one as yet who denies the deity of Christ has actually addressed the question I asked, except for one person who tried to explain it away as a matter of interpretation.
Ephesians 3:11-12
This was in accordance with the purpose of the ages, which He formed in Christ Jesus our Lord,
in whom we have boldness; accessing in confidence through the faith [fulness] of Him.
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