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Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,054,732 times
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Atheism/agnosticism and new age religion is increasing as religion slides into decline all over the West, even in the Bible Belt of the US. Many young people are just not buying what Orthodox Christianity is selling.
Do you think, as some like Spong says (I hesitate to call him a Christian tbh), it needs to be watered down or is that the ultimate heresy?
For you Bible-believers out there, what concessions can you make? I want to see everyone find God, even as I struggle. I want a clearer/stronger faith...Where does the problem really lie?
Outdated/dogmatic doctrines?
The Bible itself?
Human pride/reliance on science.etc?
Worldliness/wickedness/apathy towards the spiritual?
Can we shake up the educated in the West, or do we have to let God do his work? While I'm not a 'fundamentalist', I still wouldn't say I'm totally happy when the Bible is condemned. I do think SOME of the Bible should definitely be questioned, and I don't believe everyone must accept it 100%, but how does one present the core doctrines? I guess you could do what you've always been doing and just accept most won't accept it, or trust God for a sea-change. I mean somehow I don't think that people will embrace the doctrine 90% of humanity will burn in a fiery pit for eternity like in the Middle Ages (please do not discuss this topic again, though, aside from it's relevance to the spreading of the Word).
This is a genuine question without any ulterior motive.
The problem lies in Conservative Christianity imo. Fundamentalism/Evangelicalism etc. are a huge turnoff. They are largely uneducated, and generally the more self-righteous sides of Christianity, which people aren't willing to tolerate. Those turning from Christianity aren't willing to accept such ridiculous claims as the earth being 6000 years old, nor are they going to hate and condemn their gay friends for something they have no control over.
Religion must examine its theology as new evidence and cultural changes develop. It can't live in the 1st Century and appeal to people living in the 21st Century. Judaism has largely made this shift. Christianity, especially in the US has not.
The problem lies in Conservative Christianity imo. Fundamentalism/Evangelicalism etc. are a huge turnoff. They are largely uneducated, and generally the more self-righteous sides of Christianity, which people aren't willing to tolerate. Those turning from Christianity aren't willing to accept such ridiculous claims as the earth being 6000 years old, nor are they going to hate and condemn their gay friends for something they have no control over.
Religion must examine its theology as new evidence and cultural changes develop. It can't live in the 1st Century and appeal to people living in the 21st Century. Judaism has largely made this shift. Christianity, especially in the US has not.
I would disagree. Evangelicalism and seeker sensitive Christianity are a hash. They don't give a person anything you can't get by watching some inspirational speaker on tv......so why bother getting up on Sunday morning.
The problem is that we are abandoning the faith of our parents.
I think Christianity's problem is that life isn't as bad as it used to be. That can easily be changed, and then our poor progeny will succumb to religionist life again. Not that they ever gave up on dogmatism.
I think Christianity's problem is that life isn't as bad as it used to be. That can easily be changed, and then our poor progeny will succumb to religionist life again. Not that they ever gave up on dogmatism.
Good point. Religion used to set the moral bar very high. I'm sure there was a time where abstaining from theft or rape was considered quite a holy gesture.
Today, Christianity sets the bar lower than what the average Western adult is capable of. Our hearts & minds have evolved since those days, and we're being asked to behave unnaturally. To me, it's natural for homosexuals to marry if they so choose... and it's ok not to sacrifice things for disciplinary purposes. Why waste a Sunday afternoon listening to sermons you could have written yourself? Why hold off on having sex til marriage when your reasoning ability is great enough for you to make correct decisions on your own terms?
So, when a doctrine asks me to behave in a way that is less civil than what I know to be civility - to persecute women who have abortions, or to isolate homosexuals - well it makes me feel dirty and immoral. Why would I want that in my life?
Christianity as it stands today is - despite its efforts in some places to evolve - still based on a therapy prescribed for OUR ANCESTORS. Basically, savages by today's standards.
Today we have law enforcement & science to iron out the undesirable creases in society.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,054,732 times
Reputation: 11862
Good point, Luminous. In the 1st Century AD, or for that matter life in 19th century America especially for the poor, pioneers or slaves, was constantly threatened with death. For many, heaven was the most they could hope for. Imagine being a slave with little hope of freedom. Toiling your life. Life would seem like Hell. On top of that, they were told that if they didn't repent and find God they would suffer in the hereafter.
And the gay thing is pretty obvious. Anyone with compassion can see that gay people have struggled for a long time. Outright condemnation isn't the right way to go about it. I don't agree that Christianity is fully compatible with homosexual practice, to be frank, but surely there is a better way to at least accept homosexuals in the Church.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,054,732 times
Reputation: 11862
I think Biblical literalism is too ignorant of the specific context of the Bible. Some things are universally applicable across times and cultures but a lot of the Bible was for a specific audience, the Hebrews/Jews, at a specific time. Many in the Church act like whenever God is speaking to the Chosen people he is specifically speaking to a 21st century Westerner.
I think Biblical literalism is too ignorant of the specific context of the Bible. Some things are universally applicable across times and cultures but a lot of the Bible was for a specific audience, the Hebrews/Jews, at a specific time. Many in the Church act like whenever God is speaking to the Chosen people he is specifically speaking to a 21st century Westerner.
There was a deeper meaning to everything Jesus said To take what He said literally and burden mankind with it was never where he was coming from.
Atheism/agnosticism and new age religion is increasing as religion slides into decline all over the West, even in the Bible Belt of the US. Many young people are just not buying what Orthodox Christianity is selling.
Do you think, as some like Spong says (I hesitate to call him a Christian tbh), it needs to be watered down or is that the ultimate heresy?
For you Bible-believers out there, what concessions can you make? I want to see everyone find God, even as I struggle. I want a clearer/stronger faith...Where does the problem really lie?
Outdated/dogmatic doctrines?
The Bible itself?
Human pride/reliance on science.etc?
Worldliness/wickedness/apathy towards the spiritual?
Can we shake up the educated in the West, or do we have to let God do his work? While I'm not a 'fundamentalist', I still wouldn't say I'm totally happy when the Bible is condemned. I do think SOME of the Bible should definitely be questioned, and I don't believe everyone must accept it 100%, but how does one present the core doctrines? I guess you could do what you've always been doing and just accept most won't accept it, or trust God for a sea-change. I mean somehow I don't think that people will embrace the doctrine 90% of humanity will burn in a fiery pit for eternity like in the Middle Ages (please do not discuss this topic again, though, aside from it's relevance to the spreading of the Word).
This is a genuine question without any ulterior motive.
The truth of the Word of God needs to be proclaimed with no watering down. Those who are going to respond to the truth will do so. And those who aren't going to respond, won't. The truth does not need any Madison Avenue gimmicks to sell it. And there should never be any concessions made regarding the truth.
The problem however, is that too many pastors are not teaching doctrine in their church. Pastors need to accurately teach the word of God; the entire realm of Bible doctrine. Not just give inspirational sermons and devotions. The job of the pastor is to feed his flock. Matthew 4:4 'But He answered and said, ''It is written, 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,054,732 times
Reputation: 11862
That's a fair point. Many 'Baptist' church members probably don't know the tenets of their Faith. Denominations are just a word. I think they're mostly silly, divided over usually inconsequential things, but you're right, it seems many sermons these days are more inspirational messages than actual Biblical doctrine.
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