Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-30-2012, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,016 posts, read 12,533,171 times
Reputation: 9030

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Theist View Post
This is a very important statement for people to see corrected. It is an example of why you shouldn't try to memorize scripture. Many times if you set someone down and tell them to write a scripture they have memorized for years in support of their position and then tell them to read the verse in the Bible they don't match up.

All throughout the Bible there is only one called Mighty God. (Hebrew El Shaddai) Jehovah. (Genesis 17:1) Jesus, at Isaiah 9:6 is called Mighty God (Hebrew El Gibbohr)



It makes you look silly? Don't worry. It happens to all of us.



The difficulty here is that there is an understanding of titles like God and Lord. A god is anything or anyone who is considered mightier than the one attributing might or that is venerated. That is why there are so many gods in the Bible. The term Lord means someone who has authority, usually that is given. Jehovah is a god. Jesus is a god. Satan is a god. A Godparent is a God. Jehovah is a Lord. Jesus is a Lord. Satan is a Lord. A landlord is a Lord.



Or it makes you wrong.

John 8:58 is used by Trinitarians as being the same as Exodus 3:14. At Exodus 3:14 Jehovah says to Moses: "I am that I am." (KJV)

The Pentateuch and Haftorahs, edited by Dr. J. H. Hertz, says of the phrase: "To the Israelites in bondage, the meaning would be, 'Although He has not yet displayed His power towards you, He will do so; He is eternal and will certainly redeem you.' Most moderns follow Rashi [a French Bible and Talmud commentator] in rendering [Exodus 3:14] 'I will be what I will be.'"

John 8:58 is quite different than Exodus 3:14. Its talking about Jesus existence in Heaven before he came to Earth. Here are some notable translations:

1869: “From before Abraham was, I have been.” The New Testament, by G. R. Noyes.

1935: “I existed before Abraham was born!” The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed.

1965: “Before Abraham was born, I was already the one that I am.” Das Neue Testament, by Jörg Zink.

1981: “I was alive before Abraham was born!” The Simple English Bible.

1984: “Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.

At Exodus 3:14 Jehovah says that I am what I will prove to be and at John 8:58 Jesus says before Abraham existed I was.



You know, that statement would be a lot more convincing if you used Scripture to support your ideas and if you did a quick research on the historically documented Trinity.

The New Encyclopædia Britannica: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.”—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

The Encyclopedia Americana: “Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.”—(1956), Vol. XXVII, p. 294L.

The Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel: “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”—(Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.

The Dictionary of the Bible: “The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are G[ree]k philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians.”—(New York, 1965), p. 899.

It does not matter what the bible teaches us to a person like yourself who has an agenda to prove a point. It matters not what you say about it, it matters not that you attempt to hide behind your intellect and learning. If a statement said, "The door is red", using the type of reasoning you try to use in this debate you could say with a straight face. " The door actually is not red and I'll prove it by, BS, BS and more BS.

The hundreds of ABSOLUTEY CLEAR statements of Jesus is LORD in the bible is good enough for the vast majority of Christians in the past and at the present.
Any attack on this central truth about God is always a Satanic inspired attack. No exceptions at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-01-2012, 04:52 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,889,487 times
Reputation: 2226
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
It does not matter what the bible teaches us to a person like yourself who has an agenda to prove a point. It matters not what you say about it, it matters not that you attempt to hide behind your intellect and learning. If a statement said, "The door is red", using the type of reasoning you try to use in this debate you could say with a straight face. " The door actually is not red and I'll prove it by, BS, BS and more BS.

The hundreds of ABSOLUTEY CLEAR statements of Jesus is LORD in the bible is good enough for the vast majority of Christians in the past and at the present.
Any attack on this central truth about God is always a Satanic inspired attack. No exceptions at all.
Yes He is LORD...But, Is He GOD?...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2012, 05:28 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,889,487 times
Reputation: 2226
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Theist View Post
This is a very important statement for people to see corrected. It is an example of why you shouldn't try to memorize scripture. Many times if you set someone down and tell them to write a scripture they have memorized for years in support of their position and then tell them to read the verse in the Bible they don't match up.

All throughout the Bible there is only one called Mighty God. (Hebrew El Shaddai) Jehovah. (Genesis 17:1) Jesus, at Isaiah 9:6 is called Mighty God (Hebrew El Gibbohr).
Now, see, that I did not know when once upon a time I used this passage to prove the Deity of Yeshua...I just looked it up in the Hebrew And found this:


H1368
גּבּר גּבּור
gibbôr gibbôr
ghib-bore', ghib-bore'
Intensive from the same as H1397; powerful; by implication warrior, tyrant: - champion, chief, X excel, giant, man, mighty (man, one), strong (man), valiant man.


H1397
גּבר
geber
gheh'-ber
From H1396; properly a valiant man or warrior; generally a person simply: - every one, man, X mighty.

H1396
גּבר
gâbar
gaw-bar'
A primitive root; to be strong; by implication to prevail, act insolently: - exceed, confirm, be great, be mighty, prevail, put to more [strength], strengthen, be stronger, be valiant.

Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety nine years old, Jehovah appeared to Abram and said to him, I am the Almighty God! Walk before me and be perfect

H7706
שׁדּי
shadday
shad-dah'ee
From H7703; the Almighty: - Almighty.

H7703
שׁדד
shâdad
shaw-dad'
A primitive root; properly to be burly, that is, (figuratively) powerful (passively impregnable); by implication to ravage: - dead, destroy (-er), oppress, robber, spoil (-er), X utterly, (lay) waste.

H410
אל
'êl
ale
Shortened from H352; strength; as adjective mighty; especially the Almighty (but used also of any deity): - God (god), X goodly, X great, idol, might (-y one), power, strong. Compare names in "-el."


Interesting, I just looked up Isaiah 9:6 in the LXX and it doesn't seem to imply what the English translation implies...It seems to use the words, messenger, angel, cousellor, etal., but I do not see mighty god or everlasting father there...Wasn't the LXX a translation into Greek from the Hebrew by a Jew?...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2012, 09:20 PM
 
317 posts, read 574,507 times
Reputation: 404
Jesus is God in human form, probably solved, done... Next question
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-02-2012, 03:08 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,889,487 times
Reputation: 2226
Quote:
Originally Posted by OIF VET View Post
Jesus is God in human form, probably solved, done... Next question
OIF?...What year?...I am ODS, but was there during OIF...What camp where you at, brother?...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top