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John 20:30-31
“And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written
in this book; but these (signs) are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ,
the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.”
Romans 15:19
“… in mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God,
so that from Jerusalem and round about to Illyricum
I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.”
How can anyone think that signs, wonders, and miracles (S-W-M)
do not help people believe in Jesus and His "foolish" (1 Cor 1:18) gospel message?
God's method of evangelization was supposed to have continued on ... until Jesus came back!
Hebrews 13:8 ... “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.”
Re: the OP title ... of course, no one is talking about total failure here!
"Failed" can mean anywhere from 1% to 100%.
However, a tremendous degree of failure of the church was fully displayed by 1900, when
there were practically NO S-W-M being performed because the Lord flees from UNBELIEF.
And for this deplorable state of affairs, many thanks are hereby due to the following:
the Orthodox churches, the RC churches, and the Protestant churches!
Satan had a huge part in this …
“the god (ruler) of this world (age)” (John 12:31, 2 Corinthians 4:4)
has always had a tremendous influence in the affairs of man.
Satan did not want the churches to continue to have the spiritual power they enjoyed during
NT times. This spiritual power (the S-W-M) were a powerful confirmation of the truth of the gospel, which obviously can help people come to the Lord, and are what produce miraculous healings of all kinds.
To those of you who have been taught that God no longer works through man with S-W-M
… can Sauls turn into Pauls, can new wine work in old wine skins?
In the days ahead, you probably will find yourself in need of a miracle from God.
You need to have strong FAITH that God really is a God of miracles today!
In the days ahead, you probably will find yourself in need of a miracle from God.
You need to have strong FAITH that God really is a God of miracles today!
If God is trying to get as many as He can into Heaven and Satan as many as he can into Hell (according to Christianity) then why doesn't God use a million people with S-W-M? It is obvious God is not trying to save all mankind right now. Of course He will in the future since 1 Timothy 2:4-5 and 4:10 says He will. But IF eternal torment were true, then God really is the failure and Satan the winner. No way around this.
One cannot say: Well it all has to do with free-will. If God and Satan both know man has a free-will then they both know what it would take to win that will over to their side. Obviously Satan is a better salesman than God if that's the case.
Euse, you story line is weak and shows you have no real understanding of spiritual things. This cheap thriller sci-fi movie battling over man's soul is so lame. I wouldn't even watch it if it came out on TV.
There are as many miracles as you want to believe there are.
The real miracle would have been ending world hunger or wiping out disease. turning water into wine and performing a few dubious healings is what a charlatan does.
Heydude, good job dodging the issue and ignoring the argument. Really? the metaphor is a like a bad t.v. show so you won't consider the point that Eu is trying to make? The myth itself is what is like a bad sci-fi movie
Satan is not a better saleman as much as it takes more energy to construct something than to let entrophy do all the heavy lifting. People have known this all the way back to the Old Stone Age which is one of the reasons we ever got the original idea of "secret powers" and "forces" working behind the scenes.
There is no pitched battle between Satan and God going on. The battle is within ourselves to do the right thing and keep doing the right thing rather than let entrophy dominate our natures. Think about all of those people who know they need to, say, stop smoking, lose weight, find a job, pay their bills etc etc etc. Its a whole lot easier to just sit and say "F-it", right? Same thing with following Jesus lead and his teachings. NOT doing Right is always easier and thats what the real struggle is. Us against our own base nature.
Now...if you want to personify that base nature by calling it "the Devil", "Satan", "Republican Party" then have at it.
Doesn't change the facts.
Satan is not a better saleman as much as it takes more energy to construct something than to let entrophy do all the heavy lifting. People have known this all the way back to the Old Stone Age which is one of the reasons we ever got the original idea of "secret powers" and "forces" working behind the scenes.
There is no pitched battle between Satan and God going on. The battle is within ourselves to do the right thing and keep doing the right thing rather than let entrophy dominate our natures. Think about all of those people who know they need to, say, stop smoking, lose weight, find a job, pay their bills etc etc etc. Its a whole lot easier to just sit and say "F-it", right? Same thing with following Jesus lead and his teachings. NOT doing Right is always easier and thats what the real struggle is. Us against our own base nature.
Now...if you want to personify that base nature by calling it "the Devil", "Satan", "Republican Party" then have at it.
Doesn't change the facts.
FWIW.
If God created us with the "way all humans are" and all humans run from God rather than to Him unless God intervenes, then why doesn't God just make it so all humans have a crack at salvation? Maybe pass some magic kool aid around to undo the death passed down to us by Adam and due to that all sin? Wait! God has already done every thing to undo what Adam did. See Romans 5:18,19!
Euse, you story line is weak and shows you have no real understanding of spiritual things. This cheap thriller sci-fi movie battling over man's soul is so lame. I wouldn't even watch it if it came out on TV.
HeyDude, are you saying Christians do not believe God is trying to get as many into Heaven as He can and Satan as many into Hell as he can?
In the early Church of Christ there was not like is is today , as the early church had only one authority of people who got along together under a unity of Apostles , and the Roman persecuted them into erelevence.... Where the Church of Christ today is divided and somewhat carnal in nature..Even thought Jesus has a people , many of Jesus Children hate each other and reject the doctrine of each other ....... But in these end times the martyrs of the early church how horrible as it was , will not even compare to the martyrs of the end times as the poor and the religious people will be martyred far worst in the end times that what the Roman did to the early Church ...
John 20:30-31 “And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these (signs) are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.”
Romans 15:19 “… in mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God, so that from Jerusalem and round about to Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.”
How can anyone think that signs, wonders, and miracles (S-W-M) do not help people believe in Jesus and His "foolish" (1 Cor 1:18) gospel message? God's method of evangelization was supposed to have continued on ... until Jesus came back!
Hebrews 13:8 ... “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.”
Re: the OP title ... of course, no one is talking about total failure here! "Failed" can mean anywhere from 1% to 100%. However, a tremendous degree of failure of the church was fully displayed by 1900, when there were practically NO S-W-M being performed because the Lord flees from UNBELIEF.
And for this deplorable state of affairs, many thanks are hereby due to the following: the Orthodox churches, the RC churches, and the Protestant churches!
Satan had a huge part in this … “the god (ruler) of this world (age)” (John 12:31, 2 Corinthians 4:4) has always had a tremendous influence in the affairs of man. Satan did not want the churches to continue to have the spiritual power they enjoyed during NT times. This spiritual power (the S-W-M) were a powerful confirmation of the truth of the gospel, which obviously can help people come to the Lord, and are what produce miraculous healings of all kinds.
To those of you who have been taught that God no longer works through man with S-W-M … can Sauls turn into Pauls, can new wine work in old wine skins?
In the days ahead, you probably will find yourself in need of a miracle from God. You need to have strong FAITH that God really is a God of miracles today!
Notice your verse quote states that the 'signs' were written SO that you may believe...And Paul was going around Preaching the Gospel accompanied with signs and wonders to pagan Gentiles, I'd say SWM was more for establishing the Ekklesia, which has been accomplished on a large scale...Globaly...What did Yeshua say about those that sought signs?...They were an adulterous generation?...Just as the SWM Yeshua performed wer to establish His authority and origin of His power, HaShem, as Nicodemus in John 3 alluded to...
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