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Old 12-23-2012, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,748,107 times
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I wrote this myself (original material), so I hope the mods will allow it, even though they will find it in other places on the internet.

ETers and INFANT SALVATION

Believers in “eternal torment” are divided in their opinion about the fate of infants who die.

Some, who believe in God’s sovereign election of the “few,” also believe that non-elect babies who die will spend eternity suffering in hell. I have heard that John Calvin wrote, “There are babies a span long in hell”.

Others (Arminians) consider this unfair, and assert that infants who die will spend eternity in heavenly bliss. This of course is true, but not because the child is innocent. It’s true because the Scriptures teach that God intends to save everyone from everything that they need to be saved from.

A few years ago there was a story in a Montreal paper about an Ohio lady who drowned her baby in the bathtub. Her defense was that she loved the baby so much that she wanted to make sure that her child would not have to suffer forever in hell. After serving a sentence she remarried, had another child and drowned it for the same reason. She trusted that God would forgive her because her intention, though warped by false theology, was for the good of her children.

The jury decided that she was mentally ill, BUT WAS SHE? The simple pragmatic fact, if Arminians are right, is that her two infants will spend eternity in heavenly bliss because she loved them so much that she insured, by killing them, that this will be so.

Apparently they believe that there is a magical split-second in time before which a child, if they die, will go to heaven, and after which, if they die will spend eternity suffering in hell. They call this “the age of accountability”.

If I believed this nonsense I might take a gun into the largest maternity ward in Toronto and before the police arrived, kill every infant who had just been born. This would cause an enormous amount of suffering to the parents, but this wouldn’t matter much in the long run, because probably most of them (according to Arminian theology) are destined to suffer forever in hell anyway, so why not save their babies from the same fate?

Don’t try to argue that what I would be doing would be wrong (Thou Shalt Not Kill). The fact remains that my act would, in fact insure the baby's eternal salvation. If Arminians are right, then infanticide would certainly be one of the most effective ways of “saving souls”. Besides, God forgives murder, especially when it is done for such a noble, though misguided cause.

Sure, they would lock me away in an institution, but I would spend my life reveling in the glow of the emotional high of knowing that I had, beyond any shadow of a doubt (even in the mind of Arminians ) guaranteed the salvation of the babies that I had killed.

Besides, Christians kill others in war for less worthy causes than preventing others from suffering forever.

Folks, the actual truth about the matter is much more sane and blessed. The Scriptures teach that salvation is all of the Lord, and He will not fail to save everyone of us according to His own timing. No one will be able to boast in His presence and say “I have saved my self from eternal hell by exercising my faith in God’s provision.” God will get all of the glory for everyone’s salvation.

The important issue never should be “what is right or what is wrong”. The only really important issue is, “What is God going to do with the person who is wrong?!” The Scriptures teach that God will fit every one of us into His master-plan in a positive way, and He will use our temporary involvement with sin to teach us the lessons that He wants us to learn. As my 100 year old Dad often says, “That’s what makes Him God!”

(Afterthought) - If abortionists are, for all practical purposes, among the most effective “soul-savers” in the world, why do Arminian Christians get so upset with them?!
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:49 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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If Arminianism is right, then I'd be totally pro-abortion. I'd also wish that I was aborted, rather than going through a life filled with doubts and temptations.
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Old 12-23-2012, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,748,107 times
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Post Here are more dire consequenses from that teaching

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
If Arminianism is right, then I'd be totally pro-abortion. I'd also wish that I was aborted, rather than going through a life filled with doubts and temptations.
My step mother lit a fire in a container and told me (and a "Bible class" of a few other little children) that if we didn't "get saved" God would put us in a fire much bigger and hotter than that and He would never ever let us get out of it.

Here are more dire consequenses from that teaching.
consequences
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Old 12-23-2012, 05:50 PM
 
19,952 posts, read 13,027,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
My step mother lit a fire in a container and told me (and a "Bible class" of a few other little children) that if we didn't "get saved" God would put us in a fire much bigger and hotter than that and He would never ever let us get out of it.
She was right.
Quote:
Here are more dire consequenses from that teaching.
consequences
Your problem is that you have too low a view of God. You need to realize how big he is and how much of an offense it is to offend him.
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Old 12-23-2012, 05:55 PM
 
Location: East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
She was right.

Your problem is that you have too low a view of God. You need to realize how big he is and how much of an offense it is to offend him.
You believe God is going to burn folk in a big fire and you accuse Roger of having a low view of God. I would say you are limited in your understanding of God,if this is what you think his intent is, and you are preaching this as pastor ?. God help those you pastor.
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Old 12-23-2012, 06:05 PM
 
19,952 posts, read 13,027,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
You believe God is going to burn folk in a big fire and you accuse Roger of having a low view of God. I would say you are limited in your understanding of God,if this is what you think his intent is, and you are preaching this as pastor ?. God help those you pastor.
No...I think God is that holy. We can't please him by our actions. If we (and we will) offend him he's not going to just laugh it off.

On the other hand, he is so loving and forgiving that he died on the cross to pay the penalty for our sins.

Yes....I'm a pastor. The sermon I preached this morning said that was why Jesus came. If we believe in him we have eternal life. If not, we are condemned already.
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Old 12-23-2012, 06:12 PM
 
Location: East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
No...I think God is that holy. We can't please him by our actions. If we (and we will) offend him he's not going to just laugh it off.

On the other hand, he is so loving and forgiving that he died on the cross to pay the penalty for our sins.

Yes....I'm a pastor. The sermon I preached this morning said that was why Jesus came. If we believe in him we have eternal life. If not, we are condemned already.
How about all the times you offend and you have no idea about it ? Do you think John 3:16 is going to work for you then ?. Do you think God s going to laugh it of because you are a pastor who says I believe in Jesus and the bible .
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Old 12-23-2012, 06:14 PM
 
19,952 posts, read 13,027,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
How about all the times you offend and you have no idea about it ? Do you think John 3:16 is going to work for you then ?.
Yes
Quote:

Do you think God s going to laugh it ofp because you are pastor who says I believe in Jesus and the bible .
No. I believe Jesus paid for it by his death on the cross.
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Old 12-23-2012, 06:15 PM
 
Location: East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Yes

No. I believe Jesus paid for it by his death on the cross.
Well you are deceiving yourself.
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Old 12-23-2012, 06:16 PM
 
19,952 posts, read 13,027,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Well you are deceiving yourself.
Because I believe the Bible?
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