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Old 03-25-2013, 10:13 AM
 
4,043 posts, read 3,703,008 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
There is: "That you love one another even as I have loved you." Interesting notes on that when we also have "to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

As for how to love your fellow man, I think "agape" is best translated as having concern for the well-being of the person(s) loved.

Following Torah may be a good guide to forms of expression, but in the end, all it is is forms.

We Love God by not worshiping other Gods and Idols and To Love one another, you have to know the law in order to apply it to your life. I wont murder, lie, steal, or covet because I know it is wrong from scriptures.

I know we cant be justified or saved by the law, but much of it can still be used to point out your sins, so you avoid it.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,549 posts, read 7,002,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
We Love God by not worshiping other Gods and Idols and To Love one another, you have to know the law in order to apply it to your life. I wont murder, lie, steal, or covet because I know it is wrong from scriptures.

I know we cant be justified or saved by the law, but much of it can still be used to point out your sins, so you avoid it.
Strange to me, I know it from an application of love. An interesting closing point to the list of the fruit of the spirit in Galations 5 is, "against such there is no law." Laws may be good guidelines where there has not been heartfelt consideration of consequences, but the authority is not the law, it is the expression of that concern for the well-being of others that is love (agape).
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:03 PM
 
4,221 posts, read 1,964,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
We Love God by not worshiping other Gods and Idols and To Love one another, you have to know the law in order to apply it to your life. I wont murder, lie, steal, or covet because I know it is wrong from scriptures.

I know we cant be justified or saved by the law, but much of it can still be used to point out your sins, so you avoid it.
Christ says; "The man who keeps the commandments he has from me is the man who loves me"

Christ also says; "The man who loves me will keep my word."

"Abide in my love. You will abide in my love if you keep my commandments just as I have kept my Fathers commandments and abide in His love."

What did God command Christ? He commanded Him what to say.Here is the scripture;

"The Father commanded me what to say and how to speak and since I know His commandment is eternal life, what I say is spoken just as He instructed me."
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Old 02-23-2014, 03:53 AM
 
1 posts, read 1,067 times
Reputation: 10
Matthew 5:17-20 Til heaven and earth pass (Heaven and Earth have not passed)
2 Peter 3:5-7 Peter walked with Jesus, so this is proof that Earth has not passed
Matthew 5:17-20 Til all has been fulfilled
Acts 2:1-21 Fulfilled post resurrection (Joel 2:28-29)
Matthew 5:17-20 Except your righteousness exceeds...
Deuteronomy 6:24-25 Righteousness of Scribes and Pharisees (if we don't go above and beyond, will not enter Heaven)
Romans 3:20 No flesh JUSTIFIED...for by the Law is the knowledge of sin (Hosea 4:6...destroyed for lack of knowledge)
Paul also said that he would not have known sin but by the law (Romans 7:7)
----There is a difference between justification (being declared not guilty by the blood of Jesus and being Sanctified)
----Sanctification is the process of being set apart for a holy purpose i.e. apostleship (Romans 1:5)
----John 17:17--sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
----When Jesus said this the New Testament was not written yet, the Book of John was written almost 2 Generations after
----the resurrection of Jesus, so the question to ask is what truth is Jesus talking about? The Old Testament or Law,
----Statutes and Commandments of God.
----The Commandments of God in the Old Testament are expressions of love toward God and our fellow man
----(1 John 5:1-5/Romans 13:8-10)
----Galatians 3 is talking about circumcision of the flesh not circumcision of the heart if not Paul would have never wrote
----Philippians 3:1-3
----Circumcision of the heart is necessary to Love God and your fellow man and this is a work done by the Lord thy God
----Deuteronomy 30:1-6 BUT the key to this is in verse #2 of Deuteronomy 30, once we obey with all our heart, God
----circumcises our heart to Love Him...
----This is all accomplished based on the promises of God through faith in the Blood of Jesus (1 John 1:7) which when we
----walk according to this promise it's no longer works it's faith
----Hebrews 11:1--Now faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Our Hope is in the
----promise of God in (1 John 1:7)--so we have faith in the power of the blood of Jesus to cleanse us of all our sins
----according to the promise of God.
----Works is when someone tries to obey the commandments, to justify themselves WITHOUT faith in the Blood of Jesus
----because that person would be trying to declare themselves not guilty based on a law that every human being has
----broken: that's why we need Jesus as Lord and Saviour because He was the only one who lived the perfect life and God
----ordained that salvation would only be obtainable through Jesus.
----Romans chapter 9 and Galatians 3:26-29 prove that all who have faith in Jesus Christ are heirs according to the
----promise thus, the children of Israel (spiritual Jews/seed of Abraham (Romans 4:12/Genesis 26:3-5)
----This why Paul wrote (Acts 24:14--believing in this passage is the same greek word for believe in John 3:16) and this is
----also why Paul wrote (Romans 3:31--Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid, yea, we establish the
----law)--an easy way to look at it is, "if you have a blank check and you write void on it, can you use it for any other
----purpose other than for direct deposit? No, because it is void, or of no use: so likewise, do we then make VOID the Law
----God forbid.
----It's just like tithing in Malachi 3, if the law is done away with then why do we use Malachi 3 to collect tithes? Malachi
----was a prophet who was under the law and in chapter 4 told the people not to forget the Law, if the law is done away
----with then why do we use this scripture to collects tithes? Because Heaven and Earth has not passed.
----People think that various things in the New Testament don't apply but Paul specifically wrote (1 Corinthians 14:37) and
----if Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever then why do we say things like, "that was for that time" or "Paul was
----talking to the women in that region due to..." When all scripture is inspired by God. That's why we call it the Word of
----God. My dear brothers and sisters we have to be careful not to take away from God's Word to fit our desires but rather
----we need to repent and conform to God's Word (Romans 12:2) and Revelation 22:18-19 gives us all a severe warning
----about taking adding to and taking away from God's Word.
----Finally, brethren, to reject God's Law is to reject Jesus Christ (John 1:14), what Word became flesh if the New
----Testament was not yet written? And even Jesus Himself testified about this very fact in (Luke 24:44). I know that
----this may be hard to receive, but if you have a sincere heart, repent, and ask God for the understanding; God will give it
----to you; but first you have to depart from evil (Job 28:28/Proverbs 8:13).
----God bless you all!

Last edited by IsraelofGod; 02-23-2014 at 04:02 AM..
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:48 PM
 
4,043 posts, read 3,703,008 times
Reputation: 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by IsraelofGod View Post
Matthew 5:17-20 Til heaven and earth pass (Heaven and Earth have not passed)
2 Peter 3:5-7 Peter walked with Jesus, so this is proof that Earth has not passed
Matthew 5:17-20 Til all has been fulfilled
Acts 2:1-21 Fulfilled post resurrection (Joel 2:28-29)
Matthew 5:17-20 Except your righteousness exceeds...
Deuteronomy 6:24-25 Righteousness of Scribes and Pharisees (if we don't go above and beyond, will not enter Heaven)
Romans 3:20 No flesh JUSTIFIED...for by the Law is the knowledge of sin (Hosea 4:6...destroyed for lack of knowledge)
Paul also said that he would not have known sin but by the law (Romans 7:7)
----There is a difference between justification (being declared not guilty by the blood of Jesus and being Sanctified)
----Sanctification is the process of being set apart for a holy purpose i.e. apostleship (Romans 1:5)
----John 17:17--sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
----When Jesus said this the New Testament was not written yet, the Book of John was written almost 2 Generations after
----the resurrection of Jesus, so the question to ask is what truth is Jesus talking about? The Old Testament or Law,
----Statutes and Commandments of God.
----The Commandments of God in the Old Testament are expressions of love toward God and our fellow man
----(1 John 5:1-5/Romans 13:8-10)
----Galatians 3 is talking about circumcision of the flesh not circumcision of the heart if not Paul would have never wrote
----Philippians 3:1-3
----Circumcision of the heart is necessary to Love God and your fellow man and this is a work done by the Lord thy God
----Deuteronomy 30:1-6 BUT the key to this is in verse #2 of Deuteronomy 30, once we obey with all our heart, God
----circumcises our heart to Love Him...
----This is all accomplished based on the promises of God through faith in the Blood of Jesus (1 John 1:7) which when we
----walk according to this promise it's no longer works it's faith
----Hebrews 11:1--Now faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Our Hope is in the
----promise of God in (1 John 1:7)--so we have faith in the power of the blood of Jesus to cleanse us of all our sins
----according to the promise of God.
----Works is when someone tries to obey the commandments, to justify themselves WITHOUT faith in the Blood of Jesus
----because that person would be trying to declare themselves not guilty based on a law that every human being has
----broken: that's why we need Jesus as Lord and Saviour because He was the only one who lived the perfect life and God
----ordained that salvation would only be obtainable through Jesus.
----Romans chapter 9 and Galatians 3:26-29 prove that all who have faith in Jesus Christ are heirs according to the
----promise thus, the children of Israel (spiritual Jews/seed of Abraham (Romans 4:12/Genesis 26:3-5)
----This why Paul wrote (Acts 24:14--believing in this passage is the same greek word for believe in John 3:16) and this is
----also why Paul wrote (Romans 3:31--Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid, yea, we establish the
----law)--an easy way to look at it is, "if you have a blank check and you write void on it, can you use it for any other
----purpose other than for direct deposit? No, because it is void, or of no use: so likewise, do we then make VOID the Law
----God forbid.
----It's just like tithing in Malachi 3, if the law is done away with then why do we use Malachi 3 to collect tithes? Malachi
----was a prophet who was under the law and in chapter 4 told the people not to forget the Law, if the law is done away
----with then why do we use this scripture to collects tithes? Because Heaven and Earth has not passed.
----People think that various things in the New Testament don't apply but Paul specifically wrote (1 Corinthians 14:37) and
----if Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever then why do we say things like, "that was for that time" or "Paul was
----talking to the women in that region due to..." When all scripture is inspired by God. That's why we call it the Word of
----God. My dear brothers and sisters we have to be careful not to take away from God's Word to fit our desires but rather
----we need to repent and conform to God's Word (Romans 12:2) and Revelation 22:18-19 gives us all a severe warning
----about taking adding to and taking away from God's Word.
----Finally, brethren, to reject God's Law is to reject Jesus Christ (John 1:14), what Word became flesh if the New
----Testament was not yet written? And even Jesus Himself testified about this very fact in (Luke 24:44). I know that
----this may be hard to receive, but if you have a sincere heart, repent, and ask God for the understanding; God will give it
----to you; but first you have to depart from evil (Job 28:28/Proverbs 8:13).
----God bless you all!
Its not about rejecting Gods laws, because every time Matthew 5:17-20 is thrown around that none of the laws are done away with and they all still stand, it raises valid questioning assuming the whole law is still in place.

-Why arent we still sacrificing animals then?? Hebrews said that is no longer needed, but Matt 5:17 says not one thing in the law can change.
-Why arent we stoning certain sinful lifestyles? Doesn't Matt 5:17 say not one thing in the law can change.
-Why dont we put tzitzit on the corners of clothing? Doesn't Matt 5:17 say not one thing in the law can change.
Why are we still not having New Moon Festivals? Doesn't Matt 5:17 say not one thing in the law can change.
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Old 02-24-2014, 04:00 PM
 
16,076 posts, read 9,249,149 times
Reputation: 7168
God gave the nation of Israel laws and ... they could not keep them.

He has given Christians principles. We show our love of God by making them our principles. The Jews were forced on pain of punishment and death to obey a law code. Christians are given the opportunity to show love by obedience from the heart, not out of fear. How each applies those principles and to what extent, shows how we love God more than ourselves. Assuming we do of course.
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Old 02-24-2014, 05:24 PM
 
758 posts, read 563,670 times
Reputation: 131
The law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ that we might be justified by faith: (Galatians 3:24 )
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Old 02-24-2014, 05:41 PM
 
19,952 posts, read 12,973,053 times
Reputation: 1957
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
Here are various sites that list the commands
613 Old Testament Commands
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?sa...50108151373627
613 commandments - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The 613 Commandments
Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

1050 New Testament Commands

http://www.puritan-books.com/books/p...t_commands.pdf
1,050 New Testament Commands | Christian Assemblies International
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?no...50352289233627
http://www.beit-lechem.com/files/Tea...0or%20life.pdf


Ive heard so many times that Heaven and Earth has not passed away and not one jot or tittle will change from the law, so we are still supposed to be doing all the laws of the OT. Even if you take away whats applied to men only vs women only vs kings/priests in Torah, its still impossible to do the old law. Alot of the OT law involves the temple and since there isnt one, many of those commands are impossible. I cant stone anyone for breaking a law, we dont go to Jerusalem 3 times a year for the feasts and its commanded in Torah, we cant do the offerings commanded in Numbers 28 on the different feast days or sabbath, and i could go on with many more commands that we cant do now.

Which leads to believe that Jesus really did fulfill the OT law and we are to live by the commands in the NT. Granted the NT commands are from the OT and are explained to the fullest, I think any command from Torah repeated in the NT is what believers in the New Covenant should live by. Ive looked at all 1000+ commands in and even when you take away any repetitiveness, there are still 800+ commands in the NT and they are all 100% do able, calls us as believers to a higher standard, and shows you how to truly Love God and One another vs the many of the OT commands that have been fulfilled or cant be done now.

So when Jesus says if you love me you will keep my commands, follow the laws of Christ.
John 13:34-35


34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”John 15:17


17 This is my command: Love each other.1 John 3:23-24


23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

1 John 4:21


21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

1 John 5:1-3

5 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,




Galatians 6:2

2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

I'm curious of the motivation for following them. What do you hope to gain by following either set of Laws?
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Old 02-24-2014, 06:12 PM
 
4,043 posts, read 3,703,008 times
Reputation: 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
I'm curious of the motivation for following them. What do you hope to gain by following either set of Laws?

God says if we love him we will keep his commands. My motivation is not that if I keep them, I will be saved since we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus, but rather since I am saved, I should want to keep them . Like it or not and many Christians hate to hear this but yes we are required to keep Gods commands. It isnt optional to for say that you will not murder, steal, committing idolatry, etc. God says his follower are to follow his commands and it is plain and simple as that.

What im trying to get as is, which are we to follow since so many accuse Christians of not keeping Gods commands, while at the same time the same set of commands in the OT they claim to be following has things listed that im sure they are not following either.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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So follow the "New Commandment."
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