1050 New Testament Commands vs 613 Old Testament Commands, which do we follow? (Torah, hell)

[SAAN]

Here are various sites that list the commands
613 Old Testament Commands
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?sa...50108151373627
613 commandments - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The 613 Commandments
Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

1050 New Testament Commands
http://www.puritan-books.com/books/p...t_commands.pdf
1,050 New Testament Commands | Christian Assemblies International
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?no...50352289233627
http://www.beit-lechem.com/files/Tea...0or%20life.pdf


Ive heard so many times that Heaven and Earth has not passed away and not one jot or tittle will change from the law, so we are still supposed to be doing all the laws of the OT. Even if you take away whats applied to men only vs women only vs kings/priests in Torah, its still impossible to do the old law. Alot of the OT law involves the temple and since there isnt one, many of those commands are impossible. I cant stone anyone for breaking a law, we dont go to Jerusalem 3 times a year for the feasts and its commanded in Torah, we cant do the offerings commanded in Numbers 28 on the different feast days or sabbath, and i could go on with many more commands that we cant do now.

Which leads to believe that Jesus really did fulfill the OT law and we are to live by the commands in the NT. Granted the NT commands are from the OT and are explained to the fullest, I think any command from Torah repeated in the NT is what believers in the New Covenant should live by. Ive looked at all 1000+ commands in and even when you take away any repetitiveness, there are still 800+ commands in the NT and they are all 100% do able, calls us as believers to a higher standard, and shows you how to truly Love God and One another vs the many of the OT commands that have been fulfilled or cant be done now.

So when Jesus says if you love me you will keep my commands, follow the laws of Christ.
John 13:34-35


34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”John 15:17


17 This is my command: Love each other.1 John 3:23-24


23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

1 John 4:21


21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

1 John 5:1-3

5 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,




Galatians 6:2

2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

[Eusebius]

Your last one from Galatians is not a command but an entreaty.

The apostle Paul was just informing the Galatians that mixing law (commandments etc.) with grace was a big NO NO. So why would Paul give them a commandment which they must perform?

[Vizio]

The only thing we must do to be saved is to trust Christ to pay the penalty for our sins. That's it.

The rest of them we do out of gratitude.

As for the OT Laws? Recognize the context in which they were given. If they were given to ancient Isarel....well, I'm not an ancient Israelite.

[Ham It Up!]

Originally Posted by SAAN

Ive heard so many times that Heaven and Earth has not passed away and not one jot or tittle will change from the law, so we are still supposed to be doing all the laws of the OT. Even if you take away whats applied to men only vs women only vs kings/priests in Torah, its still impossible to do the old law. Alot of the OT law involves the temple and since there isnt one, many of those commands are impossible. I cant stone anyone for breaking a law, we dont go to Jerusalem 3 times a year for the feasts and its commanded in Torah, we cant do the offerings commanded in Numbers 28 on the different feast days or sabbath, and i could go on with many more commands that we cant do now.

First of all you need to quote the entire passage and not stop where you did.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Christ "fulfilled" the law. You must also remember who the law was given to. Not you! It was given to Israel alone.

Which leads to believe that Jesus really did fulfill the OT law and we are to live by the commands in the NT. Granted the NT commands are from the OT and are explained to the fullest, I think any command from Torah repeated in the NT is what believers in the New Covenant should live by. Ive looked at all 1000+ commands in and even when you take away any repetitiveness, there are still 800+ commands in the NT and they are all 100% do able, calls us as believers to a higher standard, and shows you how to truly Love God and One another vs the many of the OT commands that have been fulfilled or cant be done now.

So when Jesus says if you love me you will keep my commands, follow the laws of Christ.
John 13:34-35

Jesus was addressing those under the law only. Not you!

Mat. 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”John 15:17


17 This is my command: Love each other.1 John 3:23-24


23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

1 John 4:21


21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

1 John 5:1-3

5 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,




Galatians 6:2

2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

What we need to focus on is the "Mystery" that was given for us during the age of Grace through our Apostle Paul.

Trying to apply God's promises and requirements He gave to someone else is like reading someone else mail. It ain't about you.

[SAAN]

[quote=Ham It Up!;27699928]First of all you need to quote the entire passage and not stop where you did.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Christ "fulfilled" the law. You must also remember who the law was given to. Not you! It was given to Israel alone.




That is my point, Ive seen many, especially here on CD, say Heaven and Earth has not passed away, so all has not been fulfilled, so nothing has changed from the law and we need to keep it. Or just because he fulfilled the law doesnt mean we need to stop doing it.

When i compare Mat 5:17-18 with Luke 16:16-17 i see it as the law was fulfilled and follow what the NT commands. I see only the moral concepts of the OT that is binding on believers forever.

[Ham It Up!]

[quote=SAAN;27700090]

Originally Posted by Ham It Up!

First of all you need to quote the entire passage and not stop where you did.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Christ "fulfilled" the law. You must also remember who the law was given to. Not you! It was given to Israel alone.




That is my point, Ive seen many, especially here on CD, say Heaven and Earth has not passed away, so all has not been fulfilled, so nothing has changed from the law and we need to keep it. Or just because he fulfilled the law doesnt mean we need to stop doing it.

When i compare Mat 5:17-18 with Luke 16:16-17 i see it as the law was fulfilled and follow what the NT commands. I see only the moral concepts of the OT that is binding on believers forever.

Read Paul's letters to you (the Church in this age) and you will see that the law has been set aside for us. We are now under Grace. The law will come back for Israel when the church is taken. It's really quite simple if you pay attention to who each part of the bible is addressed.

[nateswift]

There has always been a line of people who need the assurance of rules to live by where Christians have the freedom to find how best to express the love they have for God and His creation. The "New Covenant" has a "New Commandment." No wonder Paul was amazed at the people who wanted to go back under law.

Rules can be a convenient guide to appropriate behavior, but there is no rule in the NT that is binding as a law on Christians. This is what Paul was saying when he said that for him all things were lawful, but not all things were expedient or uplifting.

Often when I try to explain this to people they say something like, "You mean there is no law against murder?" And I have to say, "No, you are perfectly free to murder anyone you can murder in love."

[little elmer]

The flesh needs bounderies, but if any man be in Christ he's a new creature. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus sets us free from the law of sin and death.

We know this stuff by heart, but it goes deeper:

1 Cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

That's right, the knowledge (or consciousness) of the law will drive you to sin, while focusing on Him for your righteousness keeps you.

Believe this?

[Torpedos]

you better follow every single one. in fact i add to that list daily. i am super duper holy. or you can just follow one

love your neighbor as yourself.

[SAAN]

I was talking about this yesterday with a couple of people and they did ask a good question.

How do we Love God?
How do we love one another/Love they neighbor?

Their response was by doing Torah is he answer to those 2 questions.
I agree to an extent since there has to be some guideline to follow and disagree many OT laws impossible to do since there is no temple now and he cermonial and sacrificial laws are done away with.

Like it or not, we Christians still do follow many of the OT laws. None of us would have sex with your boyfriend/girlfriend and their mother/father at the same time, have sex with your cousin, have sex with a woman on their period, or an animal as this goes against the laws of sexual morality.

As for the dietary laws, of the 30+ unclean listed foods, Christians do follow those guidelines, outside of pork/shellfish/catfish and maybe 1-2 others.

There has to be some sort of law, otherwise there is no sin.