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Why would God lock us up in stubbornness? Why would He bind us to disobedience? Doesn't He want us to be obedient?
The answer is yes, He wants us to be obedient, but before we can be obedient, we must experience what it is like to be locked up in stubbornness. Then God will be able to have mercy on us and we be able to be made obedient.
Obedience means following God's commands to love God and each other. We cannot do this until we have been humbled from our own pride and stubbornness. The fall is necessary.
Good post. My view. I have decided to make Universalists a hobbie, but there come a point where it becomes boring. Usually when there comes the blind high fives and backslapping.
I have learned a thing or two. Mostly that they twist the plain Truth and the definintion of words to fit their doctrine. A condeseding view towards Othrodox Christianity combined with a "special truth" that they only understand. And an anger towards those who disagree. Seems to fit with the Serpent's lie: Ye shall not surly die. No need for Christ in this life. And just how do UR people think they are going to chat with the folk in the Lake of Fire about Jesus? Nothing in the Bible about that.
Well it's been fun. Perhaps I picked the wrong hobbie.
Mr5150, maybe you could explain Romans 11:32. Or was God joking about that verse too?
Mr5150, maybe you could explain Romans 11:32. Or was God joking about that verse too?
Oh, but now you become a leterialist when it suits you.
Paul is speaking to the saved. You know, those who have trusted in Christ before they die?
Note, previous to v. 32 Paul writes: Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Yet another wasted post to those who can't see past their hoped for theology. Sorry, but context matters. I am done.
Oh, but now you become a leterialist when it suits you.
Not sure what you even mean here.
Quote:
Paul is speaking to the saved. You know, those who have trusted in Christ before they die?
Note, previous to v. 32 Paul writes: Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Yet another wasted post to those who can't see past their hoped for theology. Sorry, but context matters. I am done.
Yet another wasted post to those who can't see past their hoped for theology. Sorry, but context matters. I am done.
Oh come on, Twin would never leave this early during a scripture context discussion with the URs. Be strong like Twin, but hopefully not as close minded. Scriptural context is the best part of any thread in my opinion. This is where it gets good!
Rodgertutt, please continue to share as you are led by God, as I am adding your resources to my references to share with others. God bless and peace.
Regarding the words translated "forever and ever"
From AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS – Louis Abbott
As mentioned previously, there are several analogous expressions in the Scriptures which should show the meaning of the words under discussion. In Ex. 26:33 (LXX), tou hagiou ton hagion, "in the holy of the holies." This is similar to the "eon of the eons" of Eph. 3:21. In IKings 8:6 (LXX) we see, eis ta hagia ton hagion, "for the holies of the holies"-similar to "eons of the eons." The "holy of the holies" and "holies of the holies" refer to the tabernacle. Psalm 44:7 says, ho thronos sou ho theos, eis ton aiona tou aionos, "Thy throne, O God, is for the eon of eon"-similar to Heb. 1:8. Daniel 7:18: "until eon of the eons" and similar to that of Eph. 3:21, where a singular is followed by a plural, "eon of the eons." In these expressions we see the eons corresponding to the holies in the tabernacle.
While there are many different teachings on the types in the Tabernacle of Moses, it should not be too difficult to see that there were at least five divisions: (1) without the camp; (2) in the camp; (3) in the court; (4) in the holy place; and (5) in the holy of holies. These may be likened to the five eons we find in the Scriptures (past eons, present eon, future eons). The last eon is called the "eon of the eons," because it, like the "holy of holies," is the climax of the others. In Hebrews chapter 9, the Greek text of Nestle reads (margin v. 25), eis ta hagia ton hagion, "into the holies of the holies," and (v. 3), hagia hagion, "holies of holies."Just as the two holy places in the tabernacle are called the holies of holies, so the last two eons are often called the eons of the eons.
As the tabernacle illustrated man's approach to God, it corresponds closely with the eonian times, which also brings man to God. The "holy of holies" was a single holy place. The "eon of eons," a single eon. It was the pre-eminence of the "holy of holies," in relation to the other holy places, which caused it to be so designated. So the pre-eminence of the "eon of the eons" lies in its being the fruitage and harvest of previous eons. The same is true of the "holies of the holies" of Heb. 9:25. They may be likened to the "eons of the eons" of Rev. 11:15; 22:5.
Quoted from AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS – Louis Abbott
"Forever and Ever"--A Poor Translation Chapter Five
Last edited by rodgertutt; 01-16-2013 at 11:11 PM..
Wait until all of us who haven't read, don't believe, or just don't care about the NT survive. Then you can once again blame the Jews for your misfortunes. And don't try to translate the OT for me; the very act of translating to "include" G-ds word is a Christian phenomenon.
I interpret the OT the way it was supposed to be written.
With that, I bid adeux.
Shalom! I suppose you are a Jew, who believe in Ha Shem and in the OT your way, that is natural, also Christians read the word of God in the way they see it, and from their all misunderstandings come. First of all I want to ask you for forgiveness what so called Christians have done to Jews, that did not open your eyes, but further blinded you (Isa 6:9-13). You do not want to believe in a Jeshua according to your Talmud. But may I say, that the Jeshua of the NT lived 200 years earlier or later, you can find out yourself. You say, I believe in the Torah for my Salvation. That is not an obstacle, the Jews that believed first in Jeshua before even the Gentiles came to faith, were also jealous for the law, it is written in the NT. By the way the NT is written mainly by Jews, the first believers were called the "sect of the Nazarene", the word Nozrim comes from it, or "the way", because they claimed already that time that Jeshua is the only way, they all were Jews and they knew their Tanach (OT). Jeshua said that He came only to Israel and not to the Gentiles and He commanded His Apostles not to go to the Gentiles, but to the lost house of Israel. There were no Gentile believers at that time, their was not even a NT, their bible was the OT. Their arose a conflict in Judaism, the believers in Jeshua were persecuted by Jews and they had to flee and the Gospel of the kingdom of God went out to the Gentiles by the Jews. The first Church was absoludly Jewish, keeping the Sabbath and the Feasts of the Lord. Then the Gentiles came to power and they through out everything what was Jewish, except the OT they kept in the bible. The Gentile Church was born (4th century), not from the seed of Christ, but of the seed of the enemy. It looks the same, but has no fruit. This Church has persecuted the Jews, because the devil wants to eliminate the Jews (SP 83 or PS 2). The true Church is the Israel of God, now both Jews and Gentiles together have a living way to God through the sacrifice of Jeshua the Jewish Messiah. He went with His blood (this is to be understand spiritual) into the heavenly temple and the Son of Man is the High Priest after the order of Melchizedek (PS 110), according to verse 5 He is divine and all who believe in Him shall not perish, but get eternal life. The law of Moses says atonement is in the blood and it says further that the Lord made it (I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement Lev 17:11). In chapter 16 it says 3 times it is for all generations, for ever. May I ask you if the blood of a tarnegol is a sacrifice, pleasing to G-d?
God bless!
Good post. My view. I have decided to make Universalists a hobbie, but there come a point where it becomes boring. Usually when there comes the blind high fives and backslapping.
I have learned a thing or two. Mostly that they twist the plain Truth and the definintion of words to fit their doctrine. A condeseding view towards Othrodox Christianity combined with a "special truth" that they only understand. And an anger towards those who disagree. Seems to fit with the Serpent's lie: Ye shall not surly die. No need for Christ in this life. And just how do UR people think they are going to chat with the folk in the Lake of Fire about Jesus? Nothing in the Bible about that.
Well it's been fun. Perhaps I picked the wrong hobbie.
The problem with the "lake of fire preaching," is that the early church didn't do that. So, imho, if you want to follow the Bible's teachings, preaching the "lake of fire" is not not scriptural.
Please don't be fooled by this lie of satan your following. And you will have to answer for any soul you help go to hell by teaching them this lie. Repent and turn to God before it's too late.
Aisi, your method of preaching is not scriptural, HamItUp. (I used to do the same thing, but in all honesty, it's not Biblical. The early church didn't preach hellfire and brimstone. That's a modern-theology thing.)
Good post. My view. I have decided to make Universalists a hobbie, but there come a point where it becomes boring. Usually when there comes the blind high fives and backslapping.
I have learned a thing or two. Mostly that they twist the plain Truth and the definintion of words to fit their doctrine. A condeseding view towards Othrodox Christianity combined with a "special truth" that they only understand. And an anger towards those who disagree. Seems to fit with the Serpent's lie: Ye shall not surly die. No need for Christ in this life. And just how do UR people think they are going to chat with the folk in the Lake of Fire about Jesus? Nothing in the Bible about that.
Well it's been fun. Perhaps I picked the wrong hobbie.
Well we all need a hobby. I notice they start with personal attacks on us as well. They will attack the plain word of God and try and apply their new-age meanings of what they make up, and attack everything Christians do from believing God to how we preach, teach and drive a car. I have never seen any UR give anything from God's word that supports their new-age view. Unless you change the meaning of it to their new-age meanings. Otherwise they have nothing to support their teachings. It's 100% man-made from what the UR's on this forum have presented. I wonder if they have any who have a real argument that can be supported from a correct understand of scripture?
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Scriptural context is the best part of any thread in my opinion. This is where it gets good! 
