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There WAS Israel, and THERE IS Judah. God ended Israel, not Judah.
When you post this name,'' Israel,'' post it in a way that people know who you are speaking of. Messiah brings a covenant to ISRAEL AND JUDAH.
We are speaking of two separate people, Messiah brings a covenant to the house of Israel and to the house of Judah, two separate people..
Again:
Now to discuss the point can you please explain from scripture what Jesus meant when he said: "Your house is abandoned?
The Temple is gone and has been for nearly 2000 years and the Temple mount by being occupied by the Moslem pollutes the area meaning God has no favor directed there and no valid priesthood exists, no High Priest, no family of David ruling or even Governing and the land is not even what Judah controlled in Jesus day, under the Romans, No tribal inheritances, the Government ignores the Sabbath as do the majority of the Jews in Judah. It appears it is still abandoned with no favor of God with the "Nation" at all.
Now to discuss the point can you please explain from scripture what Jesus meant when he said: "Your house is abandoned?
The Temple is gone and has been for nearly 2000 years and the Temple mount by being occupied by the Moslem pollutes the area meaning God has no favor directed there and no valid priesthood exists, no High Priest, no family of David ruling or even Governing and the land is not even what Judah controlled in Jesus day, under the Romans, No tribal inheritances, the Government ignores the Sabbath as do the majority of the Jews in Judah. It appears it is still abandoned with no favor of God with the "Nation" at all.
God has fulfilled so many scriptures in gathering Israel back as a nation just as he planned from the beginning. Jesus is speaking to you, to everyone whose house has been abandoned, but we don't even have to go there.
You learn the history, and you will find out that the Ten tribes that God ended had nothing to do with Jews, They were not the same people as Jews, and you are reading about Israelites who were never Jews, who were never in the same religion as Jews.
To look back at there history to confuse the two nations is EXACTLY as if we looked back over 2000 years, and you come on here talking about Christianity and Judaism being the same people in the same religion. You are always taking the sins of one people and putting them on the heads of a completely different nation, a completely different people in a completely different religion. You read Romans like a History book speaking of the ten lost tribes of Israel, NOT JUDAH......
AGAIN, Jesus is ALWAYS speaking of the body, soul, and spirit, and you are the scribe who studies and you are Jerusalem, do you not know that you are Jerusalem. Galatians tells us that YOU have two mothers who are named,'' Jerusalem.''
So why do you look at Jerusalem as Judah only? It IS YOUR SOUL, PROPHETS are sent to your soul and the soul doesn't hear.
Lament over Jerusalem
37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! 38Look,yourhouseis leftto youdesolate. 39For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’”…
A Pharisee is a person who believes in an afterlife, and while Jesus was speaking to that generation of those people in charge of the Temple, it does not speak of all Jews, it is speaking to Jerusalem and you are Jerusalem.
Along with Paul, there were 6999 men as a remnant from the ten lost tribes of Ephraim, and God turned over the priesthood to people like Paul who was not a Jew, but whose people were of those ten lost tribes, and the priesthood wasn't turned over to Gentiles, it was turned over to that 7000 man remnant and that is the spirit of a house moving from one house to the other.
Why did God wipe out those ten tribes?
Because they separated from Judah to accept the worship system of Pagan Gods, and where Elijah stood there saying,'' I am the only one left in the entire Northern kingdom who has not become a pagan, God had 7000 reserved who refused to become Pagan and they remained loyal to Judaism.
Paul remained loyal to Judaism and if we take his word, he is a Pharisee still practicing Judaism, and to all those thousands and thousands of Israelites living amongst Jews, they became our church fathers IN JUDAISM.
The whole point of God ending the ten lost tribes and the nation of Israel was from the fact that they separated from Judah and accepted pagan worship while they spoke against the law in great disrespect, but Paul was a TRUE Israeli who become one with Jews and a perfect example of who and what the ten lost tribes were to be.
Let's just say that God has taken the kingdom from the Jews and given it to somebody else, why in the world do you think it would be you when to practice the same religion that killed and ended the kingdom of Israel.
You are ALWAYS speaking of scriptures against Jews in a faulty knowledge of History where you take the sins of the kingdom of Israel to put them on the heads of Jews, why is that the biggest part of your belief?
If what Israel had done was so bad that God ended their whole kingdom, then why would you do the same as them and claim you are different? God ended the kingdom of Israel because of the sins of Jeroboam.
Jeroboam's Idolatry
25Then Jeroboam built Shechem in the hill country of Ephraim and lived there. And from there he went out and built Penuel. 26Jeroboamsaidin his heart,“Now,the kingdommight revertto the houseof David. 27If these people go up to offer sacrifices in the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, their hearts will return to their lord, Rehoboam king of Judah; then they will kill me and return to Rehoboam king of Judah.”…
You say and do the exact same things that God ended the nation of Israel for doing, why would you think you could fill a void made by the sins of a people by practicing the same exact sins?
3 decades after Jesus died, they were having an ongoing debate about whether or not Gentiles should strictly keep the laws of Moses like Jews continued keeping, and anyone who denies historical fact will try and prove that Christianity was not Judaism when there is overwhelming proof of the fact that Christianity was a legal sect of Judaism.......But we don't have to wonder if we take Paul's word for it.
Unabashedly, unequivocally, Paul proved beyond any doubt that he was still loyal to Judaism, and that he never taught Jews not to keep the laws.
The people who admit historical fact and the facts of Jesus walking in Judaism, and who admit the facts of Christianity being a legal sect of Judaism come up to 70 A.D.
In Roman records and in Jewish records, the Gentile converts to Judaism became an overwhelming problem for Rome, and for the Jews who did not want Gentiles swamping their synagogues. They found a solution in this when the great synagogue was fired and blamed on Gentile converts.{ This was 125 A.D. long after the Temple was destroyed, Gentiles were still in Judaism at that point}
Hadrian came up and made a deal with gentile Christians to once again accept the Saturnalia and they would exile Jews and hand those Jewish synagogues over to the Gentile Christian who came back to the pagan worship system of Rome.
If people admit the historical fact, they come right to the Temple being fired in 70 A.D. and then they say,'' Here is the reason and authorization for abandoning Judaism, and accepting paganism.''
70 A.D. WAS THE REASON GENTILES THEN REJECTED JUDAISM, AND ONLY THEN.
WHY?
Because there had been a 7 year war between Rome and Jerusalem, and now Rome and the whole world FREAKING HATED JEWS. If you were a Gentile who just wanted to believe in Jesus and his Passover, you die.
That is why Christianity denies a Jewish Messiah, what Gentile would be brave enough or stupid enough to align himself with the Jews while living in Rome after a Jewish war?
The Jews didn't abandon God, they went on dying and being persecuted as the only people brave enough not to abandon God, and Jesus is correct, if you follow a Jewish Messiah, the world is going to hate you.
Let me ask a valid question,'' Why does Jesus send Christians to hell when they spend their lives preaching Jesus name, and doing miracles in Jesus name?
What did they do in order to be sent to hell?
The better question is,'' What is hell?''
If Jesus says you are going to hell, where are you going?
If you spend your whole life teaching Jesus and doing miracles in the name of Jesus, and you still go to hell, how then can one be saved?
What Christians aren't going to hell?
I can answer that, but why do Christians get sent to hell?
Let me ask a valid question,'' Why does Jesus send Christians to hell when they spend their lives preaching Jesus name, and doing miracles in Jesus name?
What did they do in order to be sent to hell?
The better question is,'' What is hell?''
If Jesus says you are going to hell, where are you going?
If you spend your whole life teaching Jesus and doing miracles in the name of Jesus, and you still go to hell, how then can one be saved?
What Christians aren't going to hell?
I can answer that, but why do Christians get sent to hell?
Jesus answers that question.
Only false religions that claim to be Christian teach a literal hell( eternal suffering)-- they do not know God
The true God= Deuteronomy 30:19-- He set before all--LIFE or DEATH( both are everlasting)-- we are all making the choice now--95% action, 5% lip service.
The symbolism taught in the NT = As each new day dawns in Gods kingdom, those thrown in the lake of fire miss each new dawning day, it never stops. Cut off from Gods love-forever. Its likened to be eternal suffering in torment.
Gods kingdom will be a cure all. One human brotherhood, united under YHVH and his son. The one true religion now is like that. They live to do Jesus' Fathers will now( Matthew 7:21) just as Jesus does( John 5:30)-- these do not fit in.
Let me ask a valid question,'' Why does Jesus send Christians to hell when they spend their lives preaching Jesus name, and doing miracles in Jesus name?
What did they do in order to be sent to hell?
The better question is,'' What is hell?''
If Jesus says you are going to hell, where are you going?
If you spend your whole life teaching Jesus and doing miracles in the name of Jesus, and you still go to hell, how then can one be saved?
What Christians aren't going to hell?
.
I agree, the better question is "What is hell?" or What is the Bible's hell ?
Can anyone think of anyone righteous who at death went to hell ? _______
According to Acts 2:27 on the day righteous Jesus died Jesus went to hell.
Not to some pagan-myth hell, but to biblical hell meaning the stone-cold temporary grave for the dead.
If biblical hell was a permanent place then Jesus would still be in hell.
Jesus taught ' sleep ' (Not pain) in death at John 11:11-14.
Jesus learned death's sleep from the old Hebrew Scriptures such as Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4 and Ecclesiastes 9:5.
So, what a person does to deserve hell aka death is: sin.
We did Not inherit Adam's guilt, but we did inherit father Adam's leanings toward wrongdoing.
If we could stop sinning we would Not die. Because we can't stop sinning we die.
Since we can Not resurrect oneself or another we need someone who can resurrect us - Rev. 1:18.
Jesus can and will resurrect the dead. Some have a first or earlier resurrection - Rev. 20:6;5:9-10;2:10.
However, the majority of mankind will have a future resurrection during Jesus 1,000-year reign over Earth.
That is why the ' future tense ' is used at Acts 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.......
So, if Jesus says you are going to hell then you are just going to the temporary grave until resurrection day.
Resurrection day meaning Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth for a thousand years.
Please keep in mind KJV translated the word Gehenna into English as hell fire.
Gehenna was a garbage pit where things were destroyed forever and Not kept burning forever.
So, Gehenna is a fitting word for destruction, or as Psalms 92:7 says the wicked are to be destroyed forever.
As to what or which Christians aren't going to hell/grave are those of Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
At the soon coming ' time of separation ' to take place on Earth those counted as humble ' sheep ' can remain alive on Earth and continue to live on Earth ( without dying ) right into the start of calendar Day One of Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth.
Let me ask a valid question,'' Why does Jesus send Christians to hell when they spend their lives preaching Jesus name, and doing miracles in Jesus name?
What did they do in order to be sent to hell?
The better question is,'' What is hell?''
If Jesus says you are going to hell, where are you going?
If you spend your whole life teaching Jesus and doing miracles in the name of Jesus, and you still go to hell, how then can one be saved?
What Christians aren't going to hell?
I can answer that, but why do Christians get sent to hell?
Jesus answers that question.
True Christianity does teach the majority of the dead go to sheol/hades/hell. That is the grave.
Do all go there no;
Revelation 20:13-14 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
If you die at sea you have no grave/sheol/hades. If you die and no one finds you, or lets you rot or burns you up, etc you also do not go to sheol/hades/the grave.
Just those buried do.
The idea of a burning Hell came from paganism and poor translation and understanding of the Greek word Gehenna (And the Hebrew meaning).
I totally agree with most everyone here. However recently I see some posts that are being posted that are claims and statements that are against the Bible.
Mainly the posts that demand that Yahshua has created a new religion and has cut Israel off has not promised to deal with Israel any longer.
There are so many Bible scriptures that prove that this idea of totally incorrect. I can give them to You if You like.
But one of the posts that I noticed was about the IDEA that HELL does not exist in the Old Testament.
The Old Testament Speaks of Hell. It Speaks of a Resurrection and a Last Day Event.
The Old Testament speaks of a literal place called Hell -where Your Soul can eXist and be left in.
. Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
_ Son 8:6 Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the hell: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.
Deu 32:22For a fire is kindled in mine anger,and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
__ _ Job 11:8 It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do?deeper than hell; what canst thou know ? 14. If iniquity be in thine hand, put it far away, and let not wickedness dwell in thy tabernacles 20. But the eyes of the wicked shall fail, and they shall not escape, and their hope shall be as the giving up of the ghost.
___ Job 24:19 Drought and heat consume the snow waters: so doth the Hell, those which have sinned. Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
This fantasy that the Old Testament does not reflect the New and vice versa is all disproven when we go to the Bible and find these facts in the Old Testament. I know that if people would read the Old Testament many of their claims would represent the actual faith of the Old Testament - it is the same as the New.
I totally agree with most everyone here. However recently I see some posts that are being posted that are claims and statements that are against the Bible.
Mainly the posts that demand that Yahshua has created a new religion and has cut Israel off has not promised to deal with Israel any longer.
There are so many Bible scriptures that prove that this idea of totally incorrect. I can give them to You if You like.
This fantasy that the Old Testament does not reflect the New and vice versa is all disproven when we go to the Bible and find these facts in the Old Testament. I know that if people would read the Old Testament many of their claims would represent the actual faith of the Old Testament - it is the same as the New.
ASV Matthew 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
ESV Matthew 23:38 See, your house is left to you desolate.
KJV Matthew 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
NAB Matthew 23:38 Behold, your house will be abandoned, desolate.
NKJ Matthew 23:38 "See! Your house is left to you desolate;
NLT Matthew 23:38 And now look, your house is left to you, empty and desolate.
It is gone. Abraham's seed is Jesus, not every descendant. "Israel" now are those circumcised in the heart and obey, unlike Israel which is still disobeying God.
I fully understand - I do understand what You are saying.
Israel has made mistakes and failed to follow Gods commandments and laws. You are right about that.
But - Remember, Zechariah, ? - the second to the very last book of the Old Testament. Zechariah, the son of Berechiah. - Zechariah, is just before the very last book of the Old Testament, -= which is, Malachi.
Zechariah 14:21 .............. and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
Here - - The God of the Bible Himself - intends to remove the Canaanites from Gods house.
- Do You know that Yahshua said - in Luke 21:24 “... That the Jews will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among the nations, and Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”
Yahshua was - prophesying that Israel will be “ once again “ scattered among the nations - in captivity. And, this prophecy has already come to pass - In AD 70 - The Canaanite / Europeans called the Roman Italians drove the Jews from their homeland.
THEREFORE - How has God not gathered His Jewish people back to Israel today ?
or why would Yahoshua / God not even be planning or preparing to gather even more Hebrew people back to their homeland before - HE FULFILLS THE REST OF THE PROPHECY OF Zechariah
_ TO Gods RETURNING TO DEFEND THEM IN THEIR BATTLE. _
If that is what He said ? - - Our Bible says that Yahoshua is literally, physically, bodily returning back to defend Israel / Judah, in the last days.
As the Book Of Zechariah prophecies and promises.
Zec 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
: 9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
: 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall split in the middle.
Part of Your post is not making sense to me and by reading the Bible, I cannot understand Your perspective - please explain why You make the statement that “”” It is gone “””
* expatCA.- If the messiah is returning for the purpose of defending the Jews from the prophetic attack when they are massively attacked by the nations around them -
then why would anyone think that everything is " gone " or over as far as God still considering the Jews His Chosen People or even dealing with them and still having plans to save them. When the Messiah is planning and prophesied to defend them by beginning to split the Mount Of Olives in half ? - to kick off and lead the charge - in Himself personally defending Judah.
Why would a holy, just and righteous Messiah - The Lord God defend a group of people who have completely turned their back on Him and whom God does not even consider His people anymore.
And if the fake Jews are a total scam and do not belong there ?
Why Is the Messiah going to defend these bogus Jews who have abandoned God ?
And - never is there any prophecy of the Messiah returning to gather - He is returning to defend the existing gathering.
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