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Jesus loves everyone because we are all sinners at one point and even after we get saved we will still stumble from time to time. I never once said I dont think Jesus loves me more than a gay person. But in the end Jesus wants us all to repent of our sins submit to God through a relationship with him.
And that relationship reflects what a church teaches as "permissible"
And what does God say about sexual immorality:
I will not be mastered by anything. “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food”—but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord,...
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?
You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.
There is no way of getting around that a church who is in line with the truth doesn't tolerates sexual immorality and preaches that God overlooks such behavior.
Last edited by twin.spin; 02-01-2013 at 11:54 AM..
I think all Churches should allow gay people to be in their Church and take communion regardless of whether they agree with it or not. This way, they will learn to tolerate them rather than fear them even if they still don't agree. Many Churches act and treat them like they have murders in their midst using the excuse "all sin is equal in the eyes of the Lord" and this is idiotic logic in my opinion and will never come close to "converting" them. Regarding the communion, why not just let them take it and not ask questions for the sake of not treating them like lepers? Even if your a fire and brimstoner when it comes to gays, why not just let them "eat and drink" Gods wrath upon themselves? ;p
I "repped" all of the positive posters on this thread.... God loves EVERYONE. He would never be approving of a church who denies access to anyone, regardless of their sexual orientation.
Homosexuality is not sin and is a fixed attribute, much like race or gender. Being Asian, for example is not a "lifestyle choice" it is an orientation that one is born with.
In my case, I knew from the earliest time in my life that I had been born into the right body - a woman's body and that I was heterosexual. That when I was older, I would date men and marry a man. There was no question about it.
As a preteen I had crushes on various rock and pop stars. They were men. I knew I was straight.
Similarly I have met Gay people who knew from their earliest recollections that they were not heterosexual.
This is harder from my experience of knowing that I am heterosexual, because there is so much homophobia in our culture and it is the minority orientation.
Add to that, the misinterpretation of ancient scriptures that have long been misused and taken out of context by certain people who call them selves followers of Christ.
Christianity today has been hijacked by a no nothing, hard right wing and relatively new band of Christianity that worships the Bible and not Jesus Christ or his teachings.
Some of these people fall under the category of dispensationalists, who disregard the teachings of the sermon on the mount as not being for our time, or in their speak, this "dispensation". They are wrong. Dispensationalism is a man made doctrine specifically made by one J.N.Darby, founder of the Plymouth Brethren Church in England. There are some Plymouth Breather Assembles in the US, but the teaching of JN Darby, who came up wirh the preposterous idea of The Rapture, in which believers are sucked up into heaven to avoid the tribulation. They obsess about the end times and when and under what circumstances Christ will return, when scripture tells us that no man knows the hour or the day of his rectum. This gives them little time to practice love and kindness to others as Jesus preached because they are too busy pointing out sin in others and calculating Christs return.
Some of the fastest growing Churches that fall into this category are prevalent in the US right now, especially in the Bible Belt. Some who adhere to these man made, erroneous and hateful beliefs call themselves Christian Centers, or Family Life Centers. Most have a hardline right wing agenda and are joined at the hip to the Republican party, and have set their exclusionary agenda for about thirty years consoling the American political and social land scape with their biggest agendas - anti choice fanaticism, and virulent homophobia.
Fortunately, I think that an increasing number of younger Americans are rejecting this tirade of hate. If you are a member of a church that teaches these false doctrines and you spend more time pointing out the flaws and short comings of others, obsessing over the End Times, and acting in a separatist cult like manner espousing self righteousness with every utterance, you are missing the mark.
And we know what "missing the mark" is. So that is what you are living in.
Absolutely anyone should be allowed to join in fellowship if they are respectful and well behaved. Jesus came to heal the sick, not the well.
Joining in fellowship and accepting as permanent member is a different thing. Anyone is welcome to visit and join in fellowship, but someone who lives in williful and habitual sinful lifestyle (does not matter what sin, be it adultery, life of crime, etc), will be asked to leave. That is what the Bible instructs the church to do, and it is done for a reason.
1 Corinthians 5 talks about a situation when there was a sexually immoral person in the church, and the instruction was to throw him out, so he would repent his sins and be saved. A church cannot condone willfully sinful behaviour among its members.
The short answer is no. We do not allow those living together without being married to join or those we know are actively involved in sin. I don't think we have ever had any members who were gay or lesbian.
wow. How does your church have ANY members at all?
Unless you all claim to be perfect.
You guys are actively involved in sin from the get go by treating others in an unloving manner. (rejecting them.)
Joining in fellowship and accepting as permanent member is a different thing. Anyone is welcome to visit and join in fellowship, but someone who lives in williful and habitual sinful lifestyle (does not matter what sin, be it adultery, life of crime, etc), will be asked to leave. That is what the Bible instructs the church to do, and it is done for a reason.
1 Corinthians 5 talks about a situation when there was a sexually immoral person in the church, and the instruction was to throw him out, so he would repent his sins and be saved. A church cannot condone willfully sinful behaviour among its members.
Fin, the person in 1 Corinthians 5 was already a Christian member of that Church and he was doing something that was probably very hurtful to his father (who may have been a member too for all we know) and in his own words it was a form of "prostitution" (translated sexual immorality because of the context) that was taboo even in that modern Corinthian society which was already sexually nuts. There is no sane comparison here and no reason to treat them like lepers even if they are very promiscuous which would even by most liberal Christians standards be sinful. It is not the healthy that need a doctor.
I think the basis for any discussion must begin with a church's approach to Scripture. If the church, local, takes a literal interpretation then that church is apt to be more defined on who can be a member. On the other end, if the Church takes a liberal view, then there will be different outcomes. The beauty of our freedom to worship is the allowance for interpretation of scripture. If a person cares about church attendance, they should go to a church whose statement of faith and practice aligns with what they believe.
A big rub comes in regard to divorced folks. Churches are full of them yet the scripture says "God hates divorce". Divorce is unfixable unless you remarry the person you divorced. Essentially, a divorced person is in a no win situation in a large number of churches. Yet, they are accepted and enjoy full member status though in many churches they cannot serve as deacons or elders. The big rub is our abhorrence of same sex relationships. Divorce most people understand but the same sex thing is not that common.
Even harder, can a "reformed" pedophile be accepted into membership? Gets harder doesn't it.
Y'all can quote your favorite scriptures all that you want , taking them out of context and failing to recognize that these were the views of ancient Middle Eastern and Mediterranean people.
Many contemporary Middle Eastern Cultures to this day deny women the right to an education and the right to vote. They homophobia is also deeply entrenched in these places. It was back then, and it is still.
These scriptures were meant for a specific time, place and people. Are all of you refraining from the eating of shell fish or Pork? How is your beard cut? How about blended fabrics - any cotton polyester in that underwear drawer?
Listen up Fundies, do not go through the Bible and pick and choose the Bible versed that support your own prejudices and bigotry! Then accuse those of us who sensibly read and interpret scripture using the brain that the good Lord gave us of picking and choosing scriptures we like.
The essence of the Gospel is Grace and Love, tolerance and acceptance. Not legalism and exclusion. Practice the SPIRIT of the Gospel and save your wordy cherry picked scripture verses.
It's the beginning of a New Age of Love and tolerance. This will be a hard time for Haters.
Fin, the person in 1 Corinthians 5 was already a Christian member of that Church and he was doing something that was probably very hurtful to his father (who may have been a member too for all we know) and in his own words it was a form of "prostitution" (translated sexual immorality because of the context) that was taboo even in that modern Corinthian society which was already sexually nuts. There is no sane comparison here and no reason to treat them like lepers even if they are very promiscuous which would even by most liberal Christians standards be sinful. It is not the healthy that need a doctor.
It applies to any sin. A church cannot allow their members to live in willful and habitual sin and still be among the faithful, because they become the tares among the wheat. The Bible is clear about this.
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