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...why is there such a massive correlation between household religion and one's religious affiliation? Why is one born in America more likely to be Christian than one born in, say, the Middle East?
Are Americans intrinsically more noble/worthy/etc than people in Israel or China?
After all, if religious affiliation is a result largely of scientific and mathematical demographics and societal influences, then the notion that Christians (mostly) go to heaven and everyone else goes to hell is quite unfair, to make a massive understatement.
If conversion to Christianity involves genuine religious experience, then there should be no noticeable distinction in its demographics between cultures and ethnicities, unless if you want to come out and espouse racist notions.
...why is there such a massive correlation between household religion and one's religious affiliation? Why is one born in America more likely to be Christian than one born in, say, the Middle East?
Are Americans intrinsically more noble/worthy/etc than people in Israel or China?
After all, if religious affiliation is a result largely of scientific and mathematical demographics and societal influences, then the notion that Christians (mostly) go to heaven and everyone else goes to hell is quite unfair, to make a massive understatement.
If conversion to Christianity involves genuine religious experience, then there should be no noticeable distinction in its demographics between cultures and ethnicities, unless if you want to come out and espouse racist notions.
If what you said in your second and third paragraphs was true, then it would, indeed, be unfair. Fortunately, that's not the way it works, though. Death does not mark the fall of the final curtain. I'd say it's more like an intermission. People who never had the opportunity to hear the Christian message during their lifetimes will be given that chance during the period of time after their death but prior to their resurrection. With the social, political and cultural baggage we all haul around with us no longer a factor in man's search for truth, I suspect it will be a lot easier to discern.
If what you said in your second and third paragraphs was true, then it would, indeed, be unfair. Fortunately, that's not the way it works, though. Death does not mark the fall of the final curtain. I'd say it's more like an intermission. People who never had the opportunity to hear the Christian message during their lifetimes will be given that chance during the period of time after their death but prior to their resurrection. With the social, political and cultural baggage we all haul around with us no longer a factor in man's search for truth, I suspect it will be a lot easier to discern.
Does the Bible talk about that?
I ask, because the Bible says this: Heb 9:27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.
If what you said in your second and third paragraphs was true, then it would, indeed, be unfair. Fortunately, that's not the way it works, though. Death does not mark the fall of the final curtain. I'd say it's more like an intermission. People who never had the opportunity to hear the Christian message during their lifetimes will be given that chance during the period of time after their death but prior to their resurrection. With the social, political and cultural baggage we all haul around with us no longer a factor in man's search for truth, I suspect it will be a lot easier to discern.
That's interesting. I have read the bible through many times and do not recall anything about this. Could you give me the book, chapter and verse(s) where you find this? I must read it!
That's interesting. I have read the bible through many times and do not recall anything about this. Could you give me the book, chapter and verse(s) where you find this? I must read it!
I could, of course, point out that Jesus Christ himself visited the spirits "in prison" during the three-day period His body lay in the tomb. These were the spirits of the wicked who had lived prior to His mortal ministry who consequently had previously had no exposure to His gospel. Do you you believe He was there just to tell them, "Tough luck. Too bad you were born at the wrong time or in the wrong place to hear my message"? He preached His gospel to them, and it was after they were dead. Maybe you could give me the book, chapter and verses where we're told such a place has since ceased to exist, "July" .
Not all Christians believe non-Christians, particularly those ignorant of Christianity, go to Hell.
Also although religion of birth is maybe the biggest predictor there are plenty of people not raised in Christianity who convert. You see this especially in China and some of the former Soviet republics. Although in the US too.
I ask, because the Bible says this: Heb 9:27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.
That's right. Man is judged after death and, based on this judgment, will await the resurrection in either Paradise or the Spirit Prison. Those in the Spirit Prison can be released from this state by accepting the gospel of Jesus Christ and repenting of their sins. The judgment which comes immediately after death is not the "Final Judgment," however, which, according to Revelation, comes later on.
I could, of course, point out that Jesus Christ himself visited the spirits "in prison" during the three-day period His body lay in the tomb. These were the spirits of the wicked who had lived prior to His mortal ministry who consequently had previously had no exposure to His gospel. Do you you believe He was there just to tell them, "Tough luck. Too bad you were born at the wrong time or in the wrong place to hear my message"? He preached His gospel to them, and it was after they were dead.
Spirits in prison = fallen angels in Tartarus since time of the flood. Humans, dead or alive are never referred to as 'spirits'.
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Maybe you could give me the book, chapter and verses where we're told such a place has since ceased to exist,
Heb 9:27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.
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Those in the Spirit Prison can be released from this state by accepting the gospel of Jesus Christ and repenting of their sins.
The Bible does not talk about anyone being saved after death
Spirits in prison = fallen angels in Tartarus since time of the flood. Humans, dead or alive are never referred to as 'spirits'.
Interesting perspective. What does the Bible tell us about when and how these "fallen angels" fell, and why would Christ have visited them? I actually disagree with your statement about spirits. I agree that "spirit" is definitely not a synonym for "human being,", but if each of us has a spirit, then that's the word that would be used to refer to it. The Savior committed His spirit into His Father's hands just before He died. I believe that when we die, our spirits are commended into His hands, too.
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Heb 9:27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.
Okay, I agree with that. We die once and we're judged. So you're saying this judgment immediately after death is the "Final Judgment." That doesn't seem to mesh with what Revelation says. Or maybe you believe we are judged once, sent to either Heaven or Hell and then judged again (the Final Judgment) and sent back to where we were?
Interesting perspective. So humans are "spirits" but they can't be "spirits in prison"? Hmmm.
We have a body, soul and spirit, but the Bible does not refer to humans as 'spirits'. It refers to angels as spirits. Moderator cut: delete
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Okay, I agree with that. We die once and we're judged. So you're saying this judgment immediately after death is the "Final Judgment." That doesn't seem to mesh with what Revelation says.
Did I say that? I dont' recall saying that. Could you point me to the post where I said that? Sinners go to hades and await the final judgment, and after that are thrown in the lake of fire. There is nothing in the Bible which says people are saved from Hades after they repent their sins. Was the rich man in Hades saved? Did Abraham tell him to repent, so he can come over to the good side? No. He was told the gulf between the bad side of Hades and paradise cannot be crossed.
Last edited by june 7th; 02-03-2013 at 02:34 PM..
Reason: Reference to Book of Mormon out of context to point being made.
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I actually disagree with your statement about spirits. I agree that "spirit" is definitely not a synonym for "human being,", but if each of us has a spirit, then that's the word that would be used to refer to it. The Savior committed His spirit into His Father's hands just before He died. I believe that when we die, our spirits are commended into His hands, too. 