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This is very true Heartsong. Yet it is difficult to do because of all what we attach to being wrong, and knowing what others do to. Discovering the unconditional forgiveness of God towards ourselves and forgiving unconditionally we find that we can look at ourselves uncritically and acknowledge we have missed the mark, without getting all emotionally bent out of shape for being wrong.
It's worth it, though! Very much worth it! I wonder how many people come on this board and fight like cats and dogs and have never once considered contemplating whether they might have been completely wrong in their views of what God is like? Only God and each man or woman him/herself knows what is hidden deep inside the heart. It does take a certain desperation to reach that point though - a "giving up" the fight, if you will. And a sincere heart cry to God lying prostrate before him. One must be "undone".
What you call reading a lot into it, Vizio . . . is what education is for. It is why just reading simple English verses using our extremely nuanced language and modern cognitive concepts in our linear thinking cultural mindset is so misleading. What we read in English translations are entirely the "precepts and doctrines of men" imposed upon the original far more simplistic and un-nuanced and considerably less cognitively sophisticated languages in cultural contexts we can barely imagine . . . let alone actually THINK in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Moderator cut: orphaned There are some very well-learned, very smart men that have collaborated to come up with some excellent translations that are very true to the original texts.
.Moderator cut: orphaned That is NOT the main problem, Vizio. Our ancient ancestors were ignorant, savage barbarians who attributed absolutely EVERYTHING that EVER happened to God, period . . . NOT because God told them it was true . . . but because that is how they thought! Their mindset colored everything they wrote and interpreted with their ignorant, savage beliefs and superstitions!!! NO inspirations could EVER get through that kind of mindset with any real fidelity. That is why Christ was needed and is needed today!!! The veil of ignorance over the OT cannot be lifted without the "mind of Christ" to filter and interpret it. (WWJT)
Last edited by Miss Blue; 02-22-2013 at 06:07 PM..
Actually, per the supposedly inerrant Bible, he cares less about how you treat people than how you treat him. If you simply treat people good and ignore him then you're destined for Hell, whatever your definition.
Actually, per the supposedly inerrant Bible, he cares less about how you treat people than how you treat him. If you simply treat people good and ignore him then you're destined for Hell, whatever your definition.
To which 'hell' are you referring ?_______ The temporary Biblical hell [ sheol ] where Jesus went to hell, or are you referring to the permanent non-biblical religious myth of burning forever hell ?
To which 'hell' are you referring ?_______ The temporary Biblical hell [ sheol ] where Jesus went to hell, or are you referring to the permanent non-biblical religious myth of burning forever hell ?
As I stated, "whatever your definition". Either way I assume it will be a bad place to be.
Because this thread is about whether the Bible is inerrant or not. You know, without error. Incapable of being wrong. If you actually read the title of the thread, you'd know that.
This is a Yes/No proposition. Now saying that the Bible is not inerrant is not the same thing as saying the Bible is not truthful. Those are two utterly different propositions. It is quite possible to say that there are minor errors in Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John and still uphold Christ's ministry on earth. The problem is that the literalists must elevate the Bible to the status of being the perfect revealed word of God, when anything approaching a careful exegesis of the text shows that it is not.
“I see, said the blind man.” The ‘sticking point’ in our ongoing exchange, seems to be in the interpretation of ‘inerrant’ as it pertains to God’s inspired Word, the Bible.
“Inerrant” means that the perfect teaching and revelation of God and Christ are accurately recorded, as inspired by the Holy Spirit. In other Words, the Bible is without error.
However, man’s understanding or interpretation is not without error and often attempts to ‘shoe horn’ God into a human standard of ‘inerrant.’ This standard declares that every word must be taken literally. This, is, of course, prevented by God and Christ’s extensive use of metaphor, allegory and parables to translate Spiritual truth into natural terms that both those with and without the Holy Spirit, can understand.
Isaiah and Christ addressed those ancient and modern Pharisees who still insist on embracing this legalistic, literal approach to God’s Word:
Matt 13:13-15: 13 This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. 15 For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’ (from Isaiah 6:8-10)
“I see, said the blind man.” The ‘sticking point’ in our ongoing exchange, seems to be in the interpretation of ‘inerrant’ as it pertains to God’s inspired Word, the Bible.
“Inerrant” means that the perfect teaching and revelation of God and Christ are accurately recorded, as inspired by the Holy Spirit. In other Words, the Bible is without error.
However, man’s understanding or interpretation is not without error and often attempts to ‘shoe horn’ God into a human standard of ‘inerrant.’ This standard declares that every word must be taken literally. This, is, of course, prevented by God and Christ’s extensive use of metaphor, allegory and parables to translate Spiritual truth into natural terms that both those with and without the Holy Spirit, can understand.
Isaiah and Christ addressed those ancient and modern Pharisees who still insist on embracing this legalistic, literal approach to God’s Word:
Matt 13:13-15: 13 This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. 15 For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’ (from Isaiah 6:8-10)
If you are correct, how can you rely on any part of the Bible being true, or is it all just a parable, or more likely, a dream?
If you are correct, how can you rely on any part of the Bible being true, or is it all just a parable, or more likely, a dream?
Stop pretending this absurd all or nothing straw man argument. Of course we can discern what to rely on and what not to! We have the "mind of Christ" and He abides with us as the Comforter within our consciousness to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts."
Stop pretending this absurd all or nothing straw man argument. Of course we can discern what to rely on and what not to! We have the "mind of Christ" and He abides with us as the Comforter within our consciousness to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts."
How do we know? If the Bible has errors....how do we know which part is in error?
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