Seeing Jesus in the Written Torah (tradition, Gospel, woman, preacher)

[Heavenese]

I wanted to make this topic because as Christians, it's important to see ourselves in Christ. Everytime you look at yourself, you always find yourself falling short. Yet if you see yourself with Christ's nature on the inside of you, you are perfect as He is perfect.


Scripture tells us that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. I know a lot of english translations (KJV and NKJV in particular) say "and hearing by the word of God", but "hearing by the word of God" is not specific enough. (Not to mention the Greek reads Christ, instead of God) The Law was also the word of God, but that dealt with you being blessed based on your righteousness. If you fell short, the curses would come. And the curses would keep coming, until you were dead. Does hearing that build your faith any? In fact Paul called the Ten Commandments, the "Ministry of Death". So again, the Ten Commandments were the word of God, and it was perfect and glorious. The problem is, we ain't!


So this is why Jesus came, to fulfill the Law. Then He became the perfect sacrifice on behalf of mankind. All those sacrifices of animals the people offered God wasn't fulfilling. The forgiveness that was achieved through the shedding of their blood only lasted for so long, and they couldn't clean the conscience of the people. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, fully satisfying the penalty for sin, and He Himself still remained. (The sacrifices in the OT burned up, but Jesus was able to say "It is finished", showing His value was an overpayment for our sins. To put it in perspective, if our sin debt to God was a million dollars, Jesus payed it off with a trillion dollars) He was beaten with an unknown amount of stripes, to the point bones were showing in his back. People ripped off hair from His beard and spat on Him. You couldn't recognize Him as human at one point. All of this was for the healing our bodies. Scripture says He bore our illnesses and our pains, and by His wounds, we are healed. So you can imagine the kind of beating Jesus suffered, to heal the whole world.


Now we know Jesus didn't sin, nonetheless He died a sinner. How is that? Simply put, God took all of our sins and sin nature, and placed it on Jesus. In hopes that we might receive His righteousness. Once we receive it, we are a brand new creature. We can come close to God, and know He cares for us and watches over us. Because of Jesus, we now a right to God's blessings, and the curse of sin has no place in our lives. Sure these bodies weren't changed, and it still ages, yet it can age without sickness. It can age without pain. All because of what Jesus did. In fact, we don't die, we just fall asleep in Christ. Death truly means to be seperate from God. So after reading my words, don't you feel confident, because God is no longer blessing you based on your goodness, but He is blessing you based on His goodness. I don't know about you, but I have a lot more faith in Jesus' faith, than in my own. That is why Scripture says faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ!


So remember, it's important to see yourself in Christ, and remind yourself about who you are in Christ. This world constantly tries to put the focus on you. It says you have to earn your way in this world. If you do good, you receive a reward. If you do bad, you will be condemned. Yet for us, Jesus is our righteousness. The more you focus on Jesus' works, the more your life will reflect Jesus. In fact it is Jesus working in us because He said that He is the vine and we are the branches, without Him we can do nothing. Say to yourself, literally, is Jesus righteous before God? Yes. So am I in this world! Is Jesus sick? No. Neither am I in this world! As Jesus is, so am I.


When you read the OT, see Jesus, because the whole Bible is about Jesus, God's grace on man. Take for instance God's promise to Eve, that her seed would crush the serpent's head. Now we know men carry the seed for life. (Sperm) So why does God tell Eve her seed, or more correctly the seed of the woman would crush the serpent's head? Is this not a prophecy of Jesus? Right from the very moment of Adam and Eve's sin, God promises restoration by His Son. Another example is Isaac. God promised Abraham that he would have a son, and through him He would carry out His promise to Abraham that he would be a father of many nations. Now Abraham was a very old man by this time, well past his days to perform and produce a child. (Sarah also, and even more so because she was a woman. Of course yall know about the biological clock) Abraham presented Ishmael to God as the one the promise might be fulfilled, but Abraham produced Ishmael when he was younger and could perform. In essence Ishmael was born from human effort. God told Abraham that Ishmael would not be the one, but that this son would come from him and Sarah. So when Abraham and Sarah was past their ability to produce a child, God produced Isaac, the child of promise. In the same way, Jesus wasn't conceived by human effort, but was born without a human father.


Of course we know the time came when God tested Abraham. (Most people stumble at this because it seems like God didn't know what Abraham would do. Hence the word test. So is God omniscient or not? I'll explain this in detail if someone wants me to, but the answer is God did not know what Abraham would do because Abraham had a choice. Choices are not set in stone. The only way for God to have known what Abraham "would do", is if the choice was essentially already set. They are not) God already said Isaac was the child He would fulfill the promise He made to Abraham, so why is it God asks Abraham to sacrifice him? How can the promise be fulfilled, if Isaac is dead? It was a test to see if Abraham would still trust in God, even after he finally got what he wanted, a child with his wife. Yet even more than that, the Lord was showing Abraham what He was going to do for mankind. Sending His only begotten Son to be sacrificed on our behalf. Even though it's not stated outright, you can tell Abraham's thinking was Isaac was going to be brought back to life. If Isaac was dead, how can the promise be fulfilled? God Himself said Isaac was the one through which God would fulfill the promise. So Abraham had an expectation Isaac would live again. God was getting Abraham to see Jesus, who was to come.


Here's another one (and I will keep posting these things in this thread)...


Look at the first instance of Moses striking a rock, and water came out for the people to drink. The people were complaining to Moses, because they were thirsty. They even began longing to be back in Egpyt. Moses went before the Lord to seek His wisdom, saying the people were about ready to stone him to death! God told Moses to take some of the elders, and go ahead of the people to a certain rock. He also told Moses to take the rod with him, the same one he used to strike the waters of Egypt. What this rod represented was God's judgment. God then said He Himself will go before Moses, and stand in front of the rock. Moses was then instructed to strike the rock with the rod, and water would come out for the people to drink. Moses did as he was told, and the people received water to drink.


Does everyone see the imagery there? God told Moses to take the rod, the same one that turn into a snake and ate rods of the magicians in Egpyt which also turned into snakes, the same one that began the first plague of Egypt, and strike the rock. God Himself stood in between the rock and Moses. If Moses struck the rock with this rod of judgment, and God is standing right there in front of the rock, who is being struck with the rod? Of course Moses literally hit the rock, but the rock was symbolic. This rod that represented God's judgment, figuratively struck God, and the water came out. This is a clear picture of Jesus on the cross, being stricken with the judgment of our sins, and we receive His righteousness. The people of Israel were saved from death by drinking the water. In the same way we are saved, when we receive Jesus' righteousness and health at the cross.


So those are just a few examples of pictures of Jesus in the Torah/OT. As a Christian, this is how we should read the Bible, because then we will see Christ was there from the very beginning. This isn't just a bunch of men, over the course of a thousand or so years, writing fanciful stories. God inspired this thing. We can't physically see Jesus, like the disciples did, but we have something even better than that. We can see Jesus in the Scriptures! By doing so, we are encouraged, until the day we do see Him with our eyes.

[Eusebius]

I enjoyed much of what you wrote. The only problem I could find was this which you wrote:

He also told Moses to take the rod with him, the same one he used to strike the waters of Egypt. What this rod represented was God's judgment. God then said He Himself will go before Moses, and stand in front of the rock. Moses was then instructed to strike the rock with the rod, and water would come out for the people to drink. Moses did as he was told, and the people received water to drink.

Num 20:8 Take the rod and assemble the congregation, you and Aaron your brother; speak to the rock before their eyes, and it will give its water. Thus you will bring forth water for them from the crag and will give drink to the congregation and their livestock.

Moses disobeyed God and struck the rock and for this he was not allowed into the promised land.

[Heavenese]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

I enjoyed much of what you wrote. The only problem I could find was this which you wrote:


Num 20:8 Take the rod and assemble the congregation, you and Aaron your brother; speak to the rock before their eyes, and it will give its water. Thus you will bring forth water for them from the crag and will give drink to the congregation and their livestock.

Moses disobeyed God and struck the rock and for this he was not allowed into the promised land.

That was the second incident with the rock. (The Hebrew actually states it was a cliff if I'm not mistaken). Yet the one I was referring to is the first incident found in Exodus ch. 17

[Vizio]

I got lost about the 2nd paragraph. Just being honest. Maybe my attention span is too short.

[hljc]

Moses struck the rock of Mount Horab, as God told him ....Then nothing happened , so Moses hit the Rock a second time which water came out in a miracle ..... God Judged Moses who disobeyed God by hitting the rock a second time and told Moses that he would not go into the promise land , but pass away in the wilderness.......But water did come out of dry rock and people drank the water .... Where in John 7: 37-38....Jesus said ..``If any man thirst, let him come to me , and drink ...He that believes on me , as the scriptures has said , out of his belly will flow rivers of living water``........So out of the rock of Christ waters of eternal blessing will flow from Jesus and people who have Jesus Spirit of Christ on their lives....Where these eternal blessing can bring ,healing and cleansing in the spirit , prophecies for faith in Gods Words , and many other gifts of Holy Spirit which people can believe and receive ....

[Heavenese]

Originally Posted by Vizio

I got lost about the 2nd paragraph. Just being honest. Maybe my attention span is too short.

Hee hee Sorry about that, I tried to keep a good pace throughout and make it interesting to read. Of course, I don't have to make this interesting at all. Hearing about Jesus is life to us, even to these bodies.


Here's another depiction of Jesus in the written Torah.....


It's concerning the second instance of water coming from the rock. The people have been wondering through the desert now for almost 40 years (because they fell into unbelief, and failed to enter into the promise land after hearing a bad report from 10 of the 12 spies), and Miriam, Moses' sister, just died. At this point in time, the people once again began to complain about not having water to drink, and just complaining in general. So Moses and Aaron went to the door of the tabernacle of meeting, and fell on their faces before the Lord. God told Moses to take the rod, gather the people together, and speak to the rock. The rock would then yeild it's water for the people to drink.


Now let me talk about this rod for a second. This is not the rod of judgment, the rod Moses used to strike the waters of Egypt and the rock back in Exodues 17. No, this particular rod was actually Aaron's rod that budded. We know this because the Bible said Moses took this rod from before the Lord, and the only rod near God's presence (as we know the ark housed God's presence) was Aaron's rod, that was placed inside the ark. This rod represented the people's lack of trust in God's leadership, but it also symbolized Jesus. Back in the day, the people would cut down branches, and form them into rods. So essentially every rod is a dead branch, cut from the tree. Yet despite being cut off from the root system that allows the branch to yeild fruit, Aaron's rod resurrected and budded, even bearing fruit. So this dead branch was brought back to life, symbolizing Jesus' resurrection. God told Moses to take this rod, representing that old rod of judgment has now been satisified, and we are resurrected in new life.


So Moses took it, gathered the people, and went to the rock God spoke of. Now the Hebrew word here speaking on this rock, denotes this was a cliff. So this wasn't like the rock Moses struck back in Exodus 17, but this was a cliff. If we were to say the first incident where Moses struck the rock symbolized God's judgment being satisfied in Christ's death on the cross, this cliff represents Jesus as ascended back to His Father. The risen Christ. The instructions God gave Moses was to speak to cliff. All the judgment and striking have passed away. Now all you need to do is speak. As Jesus teaches us that if we abide in Him, and His words abide in us, we can ask, and it will be done for us. We can speak to the mountain, and it will be cast into the sea, there's really nothing impossible for God.


Yet Moses just about had enough of the people complaining. All the people have been doing from Egypt to now was complain, complain, complain. Now at this point, his sister just died and he was fed up with the lack of sensitivity. Moses reached a breaking point with this people. Instead of speaking to the cliff, as God instructed, Moses raised his voice in saying, "Hear now, you rebels! Must we bring water for you out of this cliff"? With that, Moses lifted Aaron's rod, and struck the base of the cliff twice. And even though Moses disobeyed God, water still came out abudantly (in the first instance of water coming out of the rock, it doesn't say it came out abudantly. So this instance represents Christian lifestyle, how God's blessings are flowing abudantly in our life).


The Lord then spoke to Moses, saying because he did not hallow Him in the eyes of the people, Moses wasn't allowed to bring the people into the promise land. Moses pretty much represented God's attitude on the people. And when Moses yelled at them, and then struck the cliff in anger, it made it seem like God was a vengeful angry God. Does God have wrath on those who curse His name? Yeah, but He doesn't enjoy sentencing people to death. He wills that the evil person turn from their wickedness. This particular instance of water coming from the cliff, represented God's grace. It represented the ascended Jesus, and grace flowing abudantly. Yet Moses fail to show this, and made it seem like God was wrathful. So God didn't allow Moses to take the people into the promise land, because he didn't want the people to have this view that it's by His wrath, they were brought in to the land of rest.


Finally I want to say again, even though Moses didn't obey God in this instance, the water still came out abudantly. So even though a preacher might not be teaching God's ways correctly, still beating and striking people over the head about God's wrath because of sin (how many of you know complaining is a sin), miracles still might flow. Yet the pastor/priest are in error. Don't be fooled if the miracles are flowing, listen to the teaching and see if the pastor is teaching accurately. For that to happen, you need to know God's will for yourself. Don't depend on someone else to know it for you, and of course we already know God's will is to seek and to save the world. If you have receive Christ into your heart, you are in God's will. Now grow in it everyday, and that living water will flow out of your mouth.

[Heavenese]

Originally Posted by hljc

Moses struck the rock of Mount Horab, as God told him ....Then nothing happened , so Moses hit the Rock a second time which water came out in a miracle ..... God Judged Moses who disobeyed God by hitting the rock a second time and told Moses that he would not go into the promise land , but pass away in the wilderness.......But water did come out of dry rock and people drank the water .... Where in John 7: 37-38....Jesus said ..``If any man thirst, let him come to me , and drink ...He that believes on me , as the scriptures has said , out of his belly will flow rivers of living water``........So out of the rock of Christ waters of eternal blessing will flow from Jesus and people who have Jesus Spirit of Christ on their lives....Where these eternal blessing can bring ,healing and cleansing in the spirit , prophecies for faith in Gods Words , and many other gifts of Holy Spirit which people can believe and receive ....

I didn't see this comment before my last post for some reason, but where did that version of the story with Moses come from? At first it seems to be a blending in of both accounts of water coming from the rock (as there are two seperate instances. The first found in Exodus 17, the other is found in Numbers 20) Secondly, ultimately it's not accurate if it is a blending in of those two events. I encourage you to go back and read those accounts.

[Heavenese]

I know a lot of you may or may not agree with the things I'm saying, or have an understanding of this kind of teaching. Yet you remember Jesus appearing to two of His disciples on the road to Emmaus? Jesus spoke with them from the beginning of the Bible until the last book of the OT, all the things concerning Himself. This shows us very clearly the whole Bible is about Jesus, and that God gave us pictures of Jesus throughout.


Later, those disciples remarked concerning Jesus' teachings, how their hearts burned within them. Yet how many preachers/priests teach like that? Showing from the Scriptures, Jesus? Sure, there is the obvious stuff like the Passover lamb that brought the people out of Egypt, and all the sacrifices made for the people of Israel. Yet that is just the beginning. Instead of continuing to grow in seeing Jesus in the Bible, we are preached to live right without ever mentioning Jesus in that area. How many of you know, you can't live righteously without seeing yourself in Christ. Jesus is my righteousness, and that is something I need to be well aware of. Or else I will begin looking at my body's ability to live right, and will come short every single time.


Let me give yall something else to look at, and how God has inspired the Scriptures. Look at Jesus closest three disciples. (and they weren't the "closest" because Jesus loved them more, but they were the closest in terms of wanting to know more of Jesus. Kind of like how a couple of students in any given classroom are seen as the brightest, and are the teacher's pets) They were Peter, James, and John.


Now how many of you know, that names had meanings behind them. Most people in this country just see there name as there name. Very few actually look at the meaning behind their name, and this is really a lost tradition in most families in the US, not that the tradition began in the US but began with the very first man. It's a heritage of humanity as a whole. Yet look at the meanings behind these three disciples. Peter from the greek means "rock" or "stone". (His name is pronounced Cephas in aramaic) James in hebrew means "supplanter". Supplant means to replace or supercede. John in hebrew means "God's grace" or "God is gracious". So together the meanings are....


Stone
Supplanter
God's grace


Do you remember what the Ten Commandments were written on? Was it not two stone tablets? Of course we know Jesus came to fulfill the Ten on our behalf, and to give His righteousness to us. When you put the meanings of the names of His three closest disciples, you have "The Stones have been supplanted by God's grace" or in other words the new covenant found in Jesus' blood, have superceded the old covenant of the Law! Right there you have the gospel message just in those three names. If a pastor/priest got up in the pulpit and just said, "Peter, James, and John", he/she would have preached a full message. One that we need to hear again and again.

[Heavenese]

Here's another one. This one again is highlighting the meaning found in people's names. In Genesis 5, it shows Adam's line of descent, all the way down to Noah. Here's a list of their names...


Adam

Seth

Enosh

Kenan

Mahalalel

Jared

Enoch

Methuselah

Lamech

Noah


Now here's a list of their names with the meaning beside them...


Adam- Man


Seth- Appointed


Enosh- Mortal


Kenan- Sorrow


Mahalalel- The Blessed God


Jared- Shall come down


Enoch- Teaching


Methuselah- His death shall bring


Lamech- Powerful


Noah- Rest


When you put the meanings together, it reads something like this...


Man is appointed mortal sorrow. The Blessed God shall come down teaching His death shall bring powerful rest.

[Matthew 4:4]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

I enjoyed much of what you wrote. The only problem I could find was this which you wrote:
Num 20:8 Take the rod and assemble the congregation, you and Aaron your brother; speak to the rock before their eyes, and it will give its water. Thus you will bring forth water for them from the crag and will give drink to the congregation and their livestock.
Moses disobeyed God and struck the rock and for this he was not allowed into the promised land.

Just because he disobeyed, or the fact that Moses 'did Not sanctify God' in front of the Israelites ?

Moses did not give God the credit according to Numbers 20 v 12; 27 v 14

Moses and Aaron did not show enough faith in God to sanctify Him.