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Old 10-23-2007, 12:26 PM
 
Location: All around the world.....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
The law couldn't save me.

Thank God for Jesus.
I know Alpha, but what about Matthew 5:20 ??
I'm replying out of sync, sorry about that!!!
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Old 10-23-2007, 12:31 PM
 
Location: All around the world.....
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Let not the profane Jews, who have a disaffection to the law and the prophets, and are weary of that yoke, hope that I am come to destroy them.’’ Let not carnal libertines imagine that the Messiah is come to discharge them from the obligation of divine precepts and yet to secure to them divine promises, to make the happy and yet to give them leave to live as they list. Christ commands nothing now which was forbidden either by the law of nature or the moral law, nor forbids any thing which those laws had enjoined; it is a great mistake to think he does, and he here takes care to rectify the mistake; I am not come to destroy. The Saviour of souls is the destroyer of nothing but the works of the devil, of nothing that comes from God, much less of those excellent dictates which we have from Moses and the prophets. No, he came to fulfil them. That is, [1.] To obey the commands of the law, for he was made under the law, Gal. 4:4. He in all respects yielded obedience to the law, honoured his parents, sanctified the sabbath, prayed, gave alms, and did that which never any one else did, obeyed perfectly, and never broke the law in any thing. [2.] To make good the promises of the law, and the predictions of the prophets, which did all bear witness to him. The covenant of grace is, for substance, the same now that it was then, and Christ the Mediator of it. [3.] To answer the types of the law; thus (as bishop Tillotson expresses it), he did not make void, but make good, the ceremonial law, and manifested himself to be the Substance of all those shadows.
Matthew5:20

Last edited by yhwhshalomjr; 10-23-2007 at 12:32 PM.. Reason: add book of scripture
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Old 10-23-2007, 12:32 PM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,477,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yhwhshalomjr View Post
17 `Do not suppose that I came to throw down the law or the prophets--I did not come to throw down, but to fulfil; 18 for, verily I say to you, till that the heaven and the earth may pass away, one iota or one tittle may not pass away from the law, till that all may come to pass. 19 `Whoever therefore may loose one of these commands--the least--and may teach men so, least he shall be called in the reign of the heavens, but whoever may do and may teach them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens. 20 `For I say to you, that if your righteousness may not abound above that of the scribes and Pharisees, ye may not enter to the reign of the heavens.
Matt 5:17-20 (YLT)
Since you included no commentary on that scripture, I can only assume you posted it trying to validity to the Old Testament law. I'm not saying that it isn't worthy to be valued and to try and discern it's application to our lives but I'm also a firm believer that my salvation isn't tied to a set of rules and regulations. My salvation is tied to the blood of Jesus Christ and quite clearly a new covenant was established by Jesus.

Trying to figure out if I've accidently broken one of the ten commandments does exactly what the devil wants to do: Distract me from my love for God and my service for others. Jesus said the WHOLE LAW can be summed up by this phrase: Love God, love people. That's the 'rules' I have to follow. Other than that, I set my eyes on Jesus and try and make Kingdom impact. Splitting hairs on the intricasies of a set of laws that Christ fulfilled is, in my opinon a waste of time.

Question: If I make you a promise and then fulfill that promise, what is the condition of the aforementioned promise?

It's still there, it's still valid, but it is fulfilled. It's something you should be grateful of that I accomplished what the promise was established for.

That's the application of the old law to the new covenant. Jesus is perfect, the Old Law was imperfect. Need scripture for that?

Here's just one:
If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come—one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law. He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. For it is declared:
"You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek."

The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. Hebrews 7:11-19
I won't hijack your thread by talking any further about the Old Law. I just think, as Christians, we need to focus more on the things Christ commanded us to focus on.

Having said that, please don't misinterpret what I'm saying to be that's it's OK to disobey the 10 commandments, I'm not saying that at all. If I 'Love God' I won't worship graven images. If I 'Love people' I won't steal or commit adultery etc.

I may be hyper-sensitive to this because I have been exposed to quite a bit of legalism and that, my friends, is the height of 'graven images', putting 'other gods before God' and putting the traditions of man in front of the commandments of God and thereby, as Christ Jesus said, 'nullify the Word of God.'
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Old 10-23-2007, 12:34 PM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,477,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yhwhshalomjr View Post
I know Alpha, but what about Matthew 5:20 ??
I'm replying out of sync, sorry about that!!!
No problem. We have to deal with these things and I was posting as the last few posts were written as well.
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Old 10-23-2007, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,668 posts, read 20,283,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
Since you included no commentary on that scripture, I can only assume you posted it trying to validity to the Old Testament law. I'm not saying that it isn't worthy to be valued and to try and discern it's application to our lives but I'm also a firm believer that my salvation isn't tied to a set of rules and regulations. My salvation is tied to the blood of Jesus Christ and quite clearly a new covenant was established by Jesus.

Trying to figure out if I've accidently broken one of the ten commandments does exactly what the devil wants to do: Distract me from my love for God and my service for others. Jesus said the WHOLE LAW can be summed up by this phrase: Love God, love people. That's the 'rules' I have to follow. Other than that, I set my eyes on Jesus and try and make Kingdom impact. Splitting hairs on the intricasies of a set of laws that Christ fulfilled is, in my opinon a waste of time.

Question: If I make you a promise and then fulfill that promise, what is the condition of the aforementioned promise?

It's still there, it's still valid, but it is fulfilled. It's something you should be grateful of that I accomplished what the promise was established for.

That's the application of the old law to the new covenant. Jesus is perfect, the Old Law was imperfect. Need scripture for that?

Here's just one:
If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come—one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law. He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. For it is declared:
"You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek."

The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. Hebrews 7:11-19
I won't hijack your thread by talking any further about the Old Law. I just think, as Christians, we need to focus more on the things Christ commanded us to focus on.

Having said that, please don't misinterpret what I'm saying to be that's it's OK to disobey the 10 commandments, I'm not saying that at all. If I 'Love God' I won't worship graven images. If I 'Love people' I won't steal or commit adultery etc.

I may be hyper-sensitive to this because I have been exposed to quite a bit of legalism and that, my friends, is the height of 'graven images', putting 'other gods before God' and putting the traditions of man in front of the commandments of God and thereby, as Christ Jesus said, 'nullify the Word of God.'
Good explanation, Alpha. Have you ever considered writing a book? Can't rep you because....
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Old 10-23-2007, 12:43 PM
 
7,099 posts, read 24,444,066 times
Reputation: 7301
If having a figurine above your fireplace bothers you or causes you to feel sinful, Then you should certainly get rid of it.

Art is something that is created by a God given talent. I don't think that tossing it all out would be pleasing to the Creator of that talent.

Remember those instructions were for a people that were in the habit of having idols around. They would be tempted in ways that we would not. We have our lucky rabbit's feet instead, it serves the same purpose as the idols of that time.
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Old 10-23-2007, 12:50 PM
 
3,698 posts, read 10,202,943 times
Reputation: 2609
We don't need graven images to draw our attention away from God. We have TVs.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:06 PM
 
Location: All around the world.....
2,886 posts, read 7,492,723 times
Reputation: 1048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
Since you included no commentary on that scripture, I can only assume you posted it trying to validity to the Old Testament law. I'm not saying that it isn't worthy to be valued and to try and discern it's application to our lives but I'm also a firm believer that my salvation isn't tied to a set of rules and regulations. My salvation is tied to the blood of Jesus Christ and quite clearly a new covenant was established by Jesus.

Trying to figure out if I've accidently broken one of the ten commandments does exactly what the devil wants to do: Distract me from my love for God and my service for others. Jesus said the WHOLE LAW can be summed up by this phrase: Love God, love people. That's the 'rules' I have to follow. Other than that, I set my eyes on Jesus and try and make Kingdom impact. Splitting hairs on the intricasies of a set of laws that Christ fulfilled is, in my opinon a waste of time.

Question: If I make you a promise and then fulfill that promise, what is the condition of the aforementioned promise?

It's still there, it's still valid, but it is fulfilled. It's something you should be grateful of that I accomplished what the promise was established for.

That's the application of the old law to the new covenant. Jesus is perfect, the Old Law was imperfect. Need scripture for that?

Here's just one:
If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come—one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law. He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. For it is declared:
"You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek."

The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. Hebrews 7:11-19
I won't hijack your thread by talking any further about the Old Law. I just think, as Christians, we need to focus more on the things Christ commanded us to focus on.

Having said that, please don't misinterpret what I'm saying to be that's it's OK to disobey the 10 commandments, I'm not saying that at all. If I 'Love God' I won't worship graven images. If I 'Love people' I won't steal or commit adultery etc.

I may be hyper-sensitive to this because I have been exposed to quite a bit of legalism and that, my friends, is the height of 'graven images', putting 'other gods before God' and putting the traditions of man in front of the commandments of God and thereby, as Christ Jesus said, 'nullify the Word of God.'
Since you included no commentary on that scripture, I can only assume you posted it trying to validity to the Old Testament law.

CHRIST CAME TO CONFIRM THE LAW. 5:17-20
Let none suppose that Christ allows his people to trifle with any commands of God's holy law. No sinner partakes of Christ's justifying righteousness, till he repents of his evil deeds. The mercy revealed in the gospel leads the believer to still deeper self-abhorrence. The law is the Christian's rule of duty, and he delights therein. If a man, pretending to be Christ's disciple, encourages himself in any allowed disobedience to the holy law of God, or teaches others to do the same, whatever his station or reputation among men may be, he can be no true disciple. Christ's righteousness, imputed to us by faith alone, is needed by every one that enters the kingdom of grace or of glory; but the new creation of the heart to holiness, produces a thorough change in a man's temper and conduct
—Matthew Henry Concise
Geesh Alpha;
I am not disgreeing with you. I just want to get to the bottom of something; this may not apply to every single reader. The blood of Jesus does cover a multitude of sins for a repentant heart.
"How in the world do you type so fast Alpha?"..............................

Last edited by yhwhshalomjr; 10-23-2007 at 01:51 PM.. Reason: forgot a word, "not a typer"
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:23 PM
 
Location: All around the world.....
2,886 posts, read 7,492,723 times
Reputation: 1048
I won't hijack your thread by talking any further about the Old Law. I just think, as Christians, we need to focus more on the things Christ commanded us to focus on.

Having said that, please don't misinterpret what I'm saying to be that's it's OK to disobey the 10 commandments, I'm not saying that at all. If I 'Love God' I won't worship graven images. If I 'Love people' I won't steal or commit adultery etc.

I may be hyper-sensitive to this because I have been exposed to quite a bit of legalism and that, my friends, is the height of 'graven images', putting 'other gods before God' and putting the traditions of man in front of the commandments of God and thereby, as Christ Jesus said, 'nullify the Word of God.'


It's okay Alpha!
This was just for discussion only ,
I can identify with your hyper-sensitivity; I think we all can attest to some awful past experiences in our walk with Christ and legalism;This thread was not intended to inflame anyone or is any different than the other thread on one of the commandment. Not trying to split hairs or anything guy" just another discussion that's all
God Bless You
Go to first new post "Thou shalt not covet" (Multi-page thread 1 2)
Bellinghamite
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:27 PM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,477,861 times
Reputation: 3452
Quote:
Originally Posted by yhwhshalomjr View Post
It's okay Alpha!
This was just for discussion only ,
I can identify with your hyper-sensitivity; I think we all can attest to some awful past experiences in our walk with Christ; This thread is not any different than the other thread on one of the commandment. Not trying to split hairs or anything guy" just another discussion that's all
God Bless You
Go to first new post "Thou shalt not covet" (Multi-page thread 1 2)
Bellinghamite
I'm not beating you up, yhwhshalpmjr. I just know that it's a common practice of Pharisees to whack people over the head with certain portions of the Old testament they find useful but then refuse to 'swallow the whole pill' of following the old levitical law.

That's all.

I'm not upset with you and my 'splitting hairs' comment was a general statement, not aimed at you or anyone in particular. Rather aimed at a tendency in the church to be rather prolific in hypocrisy.

You keep doing what you do, I just needed to get 'all that' off my chest, so to speak.
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