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All that is contained in the book of Revelation (singular, one Revelation) was given by God the Father to Jesus who revealed it to John.
How do you know that? Because John said it? Maybe he made it up.
It seems to me that a person could be a true Christian and believe wholeheartedly in the divinity of Jesus but not believe everything said by other people like Timothy, John, Paul, George, or Ringo.
How do you know that? Because John said it? Maybe he made it up.
It seems to me that a person could be a true Christian and believe wholeheartedly in the divinity of Jesus but not believe everything said by other people like Timothy, John, Paul, George, or Ringo.
Jesus never wrote the Gospels, but they were written by John and the other disciples. If you can't believe them, then what's to believe? It would be crazy to believe Jesus is God in the flesh, and then to say I believe nothing else written about Him, even though the same people who wrote the things you don't believe, wrote the things you do. Does that make sense?
Jesus never wrote the Gospels, but they were written by John and the other disciples. If you can't believe them, then what's to believe? It would be crazy to believe Jesus is God in the flesh, and then to say I believe nothing else written about Him, even though the same people who wrote the things you don't believe, wrote the things you do. Does that make sense?
Yeah, sure it makes sense.
I read our local newspaper, The Washington Post. Some of the things I believe, but other things don't make sense, so I don't take them at face value.
I think a person could reasonably believe some of the things said by John and Paul but not trust everything they said. Personally, I would put more faith in George and Ringo.
I am a life-long Atheist raised in America. I have a decent knowledge of Christianity based on what I learned in school and in the movies.
One of my best friends was a devout Christian, but when I asked him very detailed questions about the OT, specifically Numbers 31, he said he did not believe it literally. He thought his god was speaking to the Jews, but they misunderstood some things, and the OT they wrote does not truly reflect the word of his god. He thought the NT is the true word of his god.
I thought his view made a lot of sense to me. Personally, I see a lot of nonsense in the OT, but not in the NT.
I understand the Jews base their religion on the Torah, so I guess they need to take it literally.
However, I would think a good Christian, like my friend, could take the OT with a grain of salt and base their religious belief on the NT.
I would appreciate hearing your thoughts.
Yes. Many of us do not believe that the many of the bible stories are literally true, for example, the Creation story or the Deluge story or the book of Job. They are, after all, different writings and different books that were written for different reasons. Some of the OT books are obviously historical, at least as far as the perception of their authors and seeing it from the side they were writing from.
Even if a book is not literally true, that doesn't mean it cannot be discussed and lessons can't be learned from it.
So let me ask this. Even though I don't believe Genesis happened, I don't believe the Exodus happened (as a result don't believe God gave Ten Commandments), don't believe Solomon had great riches, and I don't believe any of the miracles in the Bible in both the OT and NT, yet I believe in Jesus, does that make me a Christian?
If you don't believe all those things happened, yet believe Jesus saved you, that is a very weird conclusion to say the least. First question is how can Jesus save you from a sin nature you don't believe exist?
So let me ask this. Even though I don't believe Genesis happened, I don't believe the Exodus happened (as a result don't believe God gave Ten Commandments), don't believe Solomon had great riches, and I don't believe any of the miracles in the Bible in both the OT and NT, yet I believe in Jesus, does that make me a Christian?
If you don't believe all those things happened, yet believe Jesus saved you, that is a very weird conclusion to say the least. First question is how can Jesus save you from a sin nature you don't believe exist?
Even if this is someone's personal position (I don't know who you have in mind), what difference does that make to YOU? You have no right to condemn ANYONE, period. You have no POWER to condemn anyone either. Jesus did not come into the world to condemn the world. Did you?
Jesus never wrote the Gospels, but they were written by John and the other disciples. If you can't believe them, then what's to believe? It would be crazy to believe Jesus is God in the flesh, and then to say I believe nothing else written about Him, even though the same people who wrote the things you don't believe, wrote the things you do. Does that make sense?
Crazy if your relationship with Jesus is through the bible, anyway. If your connection to him is Via the Spirit, it's not crazy. Do you understand the meaning of a dead letter and a Living Spirit? It doesn't seem like you do. You only need to worry about your own relationship with God via the Spirit at this point. Unless you have had a true revelation of Christ inside your heart from the Holy Spirit, you can never be any use leading anyone else to the Father through Christ. That's just the way it is.
Even if this is someone's personal position (I don't know who you have in mind), what difference does that make to YOU? You have no right to condemn ANYONE, period. You have no POWER to condemn anyone either. Jesus did not come into the world to condemn the world. Did you?
Who said anything about condemnation? Yet it's weird to say Jesus saved us from a nature that doesn't exist. Look at Peter's first sermon. When they asked Peter what they should do, he told them to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. This is why you receive Christ. Yet it seems like we are saying on here, you don't have to believe all those things in the OT, you don't have to believe sin exists, just accept Christ anyway and you can be a Christian. It's like saying you can ignore all the things they taught you from elementary school to high school, and still being able to say, "I'm well educated." It doesn't make sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong
Crazy if your relationship with Jesus is through the bible, anyway. If your connection to him is Via the Spirit, it's not crazy. Do you understand the meaning of a dead letter and a Living Spirit? It doesn't seem like you do. You only need to worry about your own relationship with God via the Spirit at this point. Unless you have had a true revelation of Christ inside your heart from the Holy Spirit, you can never be any use leading anyone else to the Father through Christ. That's just the way it is.
Being able to see Jesus through the Bible is wonderful. That is how you confirm He is the one the prophets were speaking on. God uses prophecy and the Scriptures, to bring us to an understanding. Paul said to learn from the people who didn't enter the promise land. Now if all that stuff didn't happen, Jesus doesn't make sense. The Holy Spirit brings to our remembrance the things Jesus taught the disciples. Yet if you throw out Scripture, what is the Spirit going to remind you of? We are to rightly divide the word of truth. Yet we are saying it's okay to throw out the Scriptures. Doesn't add up one bit.
Last edited by Heavenese; 03-09-2013 at 08:58 PM..
So let me ask this. Even though I don't believe Genesis happened, I don't believe the Exodus happened (as a result don't believe God gave Ten Commandments), don't believe Solomon had great riches, and I don't believe any of the miracles in the Bible in both the OT and NT, yet I believe in Jesus, does that make me a Christian?
If you don't believe all those things happened, yet believe Jesus saved you, that is a very weird conclusion to say the least. First question is how can Jesus save you from a sin nature you don't believe exist?
What possible difference does it make to God WHAT you say you believe? It is what you DO and whether or not you follow Christ through "love of God and each other" that affects your fate . . . that is what reveals what you truly believe. Your intellectual acceptance of fables and stories has no effect whatsoever on your fate or compatibility with God's agape love. None! You are promoting YOUR view of scripture and demanding that everyone accept YOUR view of it. We are perfectly capable of believing scripture the way WE divide it and view it. Intolerance and judgmentalism is not appreciated and is not an effective witness.
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