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Watch an old dog as it comes to the end of it's life. Nature has it that the mutt adjusts to the idea of dying. They do not have a fear of possible oblivion or some idea of hell. My daughter asked me this question recently " Dad now that you are getting closer to death do you fear it?" I thought about it and said no- older age makes the necessary adjustments mentally and spiritually. Like the old dog some of us say that's enough.
One human life span can for all intent be an eternity and if lived well can be a heaven. Atheist believe that people of faith are like someone bribed to be good so they can get some reward in the form of eternal life. I don't believe this is the case. Faith should not be bribery based. No one has reported back from the dead to say that there is an after life. So this is and will always be one of God's great mysteries.
What I do believe is that if you WANT to live forever in another world...It is possible. All things are possible. BUT - some might be like the old dog who has had a good life and says "that's enough- thank you very much".
Myself - if there is an after life and I truly want more it could be granted. In the alternative if there is nothing then that has to be excepted because we have no choice..putting that aside...I guess by the grace of God I will make that decision on my death bed. The hardest part is not the dying but leaving the loved ones behind who love you- and who will cry when you leave. I do wish in my heart that we could all stay together for eternity. LOVE...is strong..perhaps stronger than the sting of death?
Well, at least two people actually answered the question. Kudos to Royalite and lovesMountains.
For me it is a community of people who are concerned about the same things I am, which really boils down to how operating in this world with a real concern for the well-being of others can be expressed. Ideally a church community would offer this to you with the inspiration shared disappointment sense of purpose and all that goes with such a community.
Finding such a community in the Christian world today may be another question.
The Word says the real you (the Soul/consciousness) is eternal. We are spiritual eternal entities undergoing a physical experience in the physical dimension we know as time. Eternity is without time.
The Bible says we will either be in God's presence in this eternal reality by trusting in Jesus Christ or we will be "with no hope" in the eternal realm separate from His presence. The bad news is that we are a condemned human race in a cursed creation due to our "missing the mark" (ie sin). The mark is Holiness/perfect righteousness to God's absolute law. We are all condemned as we have all fallen short of the righteous requirement to have fellowship with our Creator.
The "good news" is that our creator became man as the Messiah in the person of Jesus to pay the price we couldn't. Through faith in Him, imputation of God's holiness is imputed to your account. You are seen as perfect in Him as through Jesus you can have fellowship with the Father (the reason why we were created). The demonstration of our faithfulness toward Christ tests our love for God.
This life is a test. Salvation is a gift freely offered to the undeserving sinner. Once one trusts in Christ for their salvation, the new birth occurs result in in repentance toward God in the obedience of faith.
God's will is that all of Mankind repents to God through Jesus Christ so He can forgive our sins.
How can a just God forgive sinful Man ? Only the cross. Otherwise He would not be just as the guilty would go free. God is just their fore the guilty cannot as and will not be set free apart from the cross.
:-)
What's beautiful is that God is just waiting to forgive you. He will not violate your free will however. All of heaven rejoices when just one sinner repents trusting in Christ.
Life or death the choice is there. Their is no choice whether we want to live forever or not. We do have a choice of where we will spend eternity. For by Grace are he saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God lest any Man should boast. Ephesians 2:8,9
Last edited by Mikelee81; 04-05-2013 at 09:05 AM..
I had given up on this thread. Very few understood that I was not asking if Christians believe in heaven and/or hell. Of course they do. I am not a Christian. I do not believe in any sort of afterlife. Not being a Christian, what would be the appeal? What else is there that you get out of your religion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Do you really have to try to force your views on everyone else? Hell is an actual place. Whether or not you or her believe in it.
Wow! Do you not see how hypocritical that statement is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisWayne
The first two things satan attacks is God's word and consequences for sin. That was the first recorded words of satan in the bible and he still does the same thing now.
How does this relate to the topic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach
Watch an old dog as it comes to the end of it's life. Nature has it that the mutt adjusts to the idea of dying. They do not have a fear of possible oblivion or some idea of hell. My daughter asked me this question recently " Dad now that you are getting closer to death do you fear it?" I thought about it and said no- older age makes the necessary adjustments mentally and spiritually. Like the old dog some of us say that's enough.
One human life span can for all intent be an eternity and if lived well can be a heaven. Atheist believe that people of faith are like someone bribed to be good so they can get some reward in the form of eternal life. I don't believe this is the case. Faith should not be bribery based. No one has reported back from the dead to say that there is an after life. So this is and will always be one of God's great mysteries.
What I do believe is that if you WANT to live forever in another world...It is possible. All things are possible. BUT - some might be like the old dog who has had a good life and says "that's enough- thank you very much".
Myself - if there is an after life and I truly want more it could be granted. In the alternative if there is nothing then that has to be excepted because we have no choice..putting that aside...I guess by the grace of God I will make that decision on my death bed. The hardest part is not the dying but leaving the loved ones behind who love you- and who will cry when you leave. I do wish in my heart that we could all stay together for eternity. LOVE...is strong..perhaps stronger than the sting of death?
Very nice post. Thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
Well, at least two people actually answered the question. Kudos to Royalite and lovesMountains.
For me it is a community of people who are concerned about the same things I am, which really boils down to how operating in this world with a real concern for the well-being of others can be expressed. Ideally a church community would offer this to you with the inspiration shared disappointment sense of purpose and all that goes with such a community.
Finding such a community in the Christian world today may be another question.
Good answer. But religion is not necessary to find a like minded community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81
The Word says the real you (the Soul/consciousness) is eternal. We are spiritual eternal entities undergoing a physical experience in the physical dimension we know as time. Eternity is without time.
The Bible says we will either be in God's presence in this eternal reality by trusting in Jesus Christ or we will be "with no hope" in the eternal realm separate from His presence. The bad news is that we are a condemned human race in a cursed creation due to our "missing the mark" (ie sin). The mark is Holiness/perfect righteousness to God's absolute law. We are all condemned as we have all fallen short of the righteous requirement to have fellowship with our Creator.
The "good news" is that our creator became man as the Messiah in the person of Jesus to pay the price we couldn't. Through faith in Him, imputation of God's holiness is imputed to your account. You are seen as perfect in Him as through Jesus you can have fellowship with the Father (the reason why we were created). The demonstration of our faithfulness toward Christ tests our love for God.
This life is a test. Salvation is a gift freely offered to the undeserving sinner. Once one trusts in Christ for their salvation, the new birth occurs result in in repentance toward God in the obedience of faith.
God's will is that all of Mankind repents to God through Jesus Christ so He can forgive our sins.
How can a just God forgive sinful Man ? Only the cross. Otherwise He would not be just as the guilty would go free. God is just their fore the guilty cannot as and will not be set free apart from the cross.
:-)
What's beautiful is that God is just waiting to forgive you. He will not violate your free will however. All of heaven rejoices when just one sinner repents trusting in Christ.
Life or death the choice is there. Their is no choice whether we want to live forever or not. We do have a choice of where we will spend eternity. For by Grace are he saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God lest any Man should boast. Ephesians 2:8,9
You have to be honest regarding the question. During my life I have had a few very intense lucid dreams of another world. It was as if I were to die during one of these dreams I might continue in this reality. Getting back to the question at hand. Do you want to live forever?
The answer to to this question will probably be stimulated by the fear of death more so than the desire to live forever. The idea of not existing anymore is more terrifying in some respect than the hope of living forever...which could also be a terror of sorts. Looking at my life and the thousand lives that I have lived because of constant personal change- it already feels as if I have lived forever.
Sometimes I think that I maybe at the end of a very long road. Genetically I believe that there is a very lengthy memory in all of us. It might be that we have the memory contained in our DNA that is the mind of every last one of our ancestors.
Often I wonder why there are generations and why the need to breed or the life force is so strong to sustain our genetic lineage. To be honest and I really hate being honest with myself. It's disturbing that I actually don't want to live another life..or forever for that matter.
Most of us have a sense of destiny. When that destiny is not fulfilled in this life we simply give up and don't want to play anymore. I love this planet and it's miracles. What might cause resentment towards the idea of living forever is the suspicion that the next life might be similar to this one...that we will have to deal with injustice and evil.
In my youth I had no idea how unfair this world and it's systems would be. Like I said...I love earth and am thankful for my life but I am disappointment in humanity. The human experience from a natural point of view has been wonderful. From the view of living in an artificial environment...I really did not like it much. My belief is that this is a heaven that has been severely perverted. It's as if God set the whole thing into motion and left.
Were we meant to achieve Godhood in this life time? Probably but religion has taught us that we are to submit to the imperfections of human systems and existence.
Okay...The question is do we consider ourselves earthly failures? With that sense of failure perhaps some want another run at the game. Do I want one? Not really..the whole experience has been great but at the same time it has been tragic. I think that perhaps some of us suffer from tragic burn out. The idea of extending our existence might feel unsavory. Being alive can be like a bad marriage..something you don't want to repeat.
Anyway - the sense of adventure prevails. I will have to put my God resentment aside and give the all mighty another chance...okay....I have made up my mind...I will ask for eternal life - may as well..the alternative is gloomy. I just wish that God would have been a more involved parent in this life. Inside we are still children at heart and I just hope that this child is shown mercy at the end.
"I will make you a little lower than the angels" - could be a good thing to accept the promotion.
Stop with the "all-or-nothing" nonsense. Why is it so many people eventually resort to that ridiculous position. Everything that a human consciousness holds or held in LOVE will be with them, period. It is our consciousness (cumulative over our lifetime) that is permanent and will be what we bring to the afterlife.. Anything that is NOT compatible with God's love (and NOT repented) . . . will be refined out as dross in the consuming Fire of God's love. End of story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
It has nothing to do with knowing what will be in heaven and everything to do with knowing that our consciousness will endure. There is nothing to transform consciousness that is "weltschmerz consciousness" into anything else and no way for it to decompose. It is NOT matter and does not reside in matter. It is a field phenomenon and resides in the universal field. It is just a matter of deduction that what we hold and held in our consciousness will be with us after death. The only remotely questionable aspect of what I said is that anything NOT compatible with God's love will be refined out as dross by God. Your laughter is misplaced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz
My consciousness will probably die with me. My cat's consciousness will probably die with it. Same goes for every bird, dog and bear. I'm OK with it.
Do you have any solid evidence of it residing in a universal field other than a Vedic theory?
It is not Vedic theory. . . it is neuroscience theory. The hypotheses are supported by existing evidence and scientific principles . . . (not to mention my personal experiences). We have not discussed the details of John McFadden's CEMI field as the measurable correlate to what I call in-process mind (that which is communicable and reveals the existence of consciousness) or E. Roy John's neural resonance field recruiting an entire network of neurons into what I call the "composite awareness in a resonant neural field" that we use to think and measure. These provide strong support and in the case of McFadden's CEMI . . . testable indices of our in-process consciousness as a field. Of course . . . I prefer Benjamin Libet's non-EM field as the repository for the permanent composite because of its compatibility with the non-baryonic nature of dark energy.
Mystic,
Where was our consciousness before we were born - I'm curious if you have any thoughts on that.
I take the "seed" view of the Kingdom of God and the birth of our consciousness seriously, Heartsong. I believe we arrive in this earthen vessel as the seed of God's consciousness (gennao = born from above, conceived) and we (our embryo Spirit) grow and mature through our lives until our rebirth as Spirit upon our death.
Good answer. But religion is not necessary to find a like minded community.
No, it's not. It is just the major aspect that the other two actual answers to the question didn't cover. I don't know if you have or are even interested in such a community without the religion aspect, but if you are interested you might check out [url=http://www.nontheistfriends.org/[/url] James Riemerman is a very intelligent, articulate and feeling atheist.
It's amazing that all of creation is going to be judged by one single thing... Our attitude towards God's works through Jesus Christ. How we judge Christ and respond to His words is how we will be judged. So we are really only judging ourselves.
God will not violate one's free will. The scriptures are pretty clear in His love His hand is outstretched still to even to those that hate, mock, and despise Him. Thereis a day, however when the hand withdraws itself, the door closes, and the waters begin to rise. All that perished in the flood became believers eventually.
In I can only present the gospel of salvation. We all have to make this choice for ourselves. According to the scriptures, eternity is the real reality.
It's amazing that all of creation is going to be judged by one single thing... Our attitude towards God's works through Jesus Christ. How we judge Christ and respond to His words is how we will be judged. So we are really only judging ourselves.
God will not violate one's free will. The scriptures are pretty clear in His love His hand is outstretched still to even to those that hate, mock, and despise Him. Thereis a day, however when the hand withdraws itself, the door closes, and the waters begin to rise. All that perished in the flood became believers eventually.
In I can only present the gospel of salvation. We all have to make this choice for ourselves. According to the scriptures, eternity is the real reality.
Do you have anything to say that is even remotely on topic?
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