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No - that is absolutely not true. Because of the virgin birth, He is outside the realm of Adam. He was not condemned to death - He was totally innocent and without sin and voluntarily gave up His life. The all men in Rom. 5 :18 is not ALL men.
Luk_24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
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Originally Posted by Eusebius I prefer "And this is life eonian, that they may know Thee . . . ." They will get to have life pertaining to the future eon so that they may know the only true God more so than they did when Christ walked among them. The eonian life or life pertaining to the eon(s) to come runs concurrent with the eons (the two remaining eons). When the eons end our life will not end even though we have eonian life. What will allow us to live beyond the eons is the fact that we will put on immortality and incorruption. (see 1 Cor.15).
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Hey - I used your preferred YLT translation in John 17:3 - so please stop with what you prefer.
The red bolded above - absolute jibberish to me. You need an English equivalent for this. Does this theology not work in English? I need a translator if you are going to do this in tongues.
Of course it's words in English. I didn't quote German.
O.k., the age-pertaining life is the life pertaining to the age(s) to come and runs concurrent with the ages. When the ages end our life will not end even though we have age-pertaining life because we will put on immortality and incorruption. Immortality allows us to live on when the ages end.
Again, there is not one verse in all the Bible which tells us God is trying to save mankind from Hell nor is there one verse which even remotely says if one does not believe in Jesus they will go to Hell.
Luk_24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
The chief priests and rulers condemned Him. On what basis what Christ condemned?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Of course it words in English. I didn't quote German.
O.k., the age-pertaining life is the life pertaining to the age(s) to come and runs concurrent with the ages. When the ages end our life will not end even though we have age-pertaining life because we will put on immortality and incorruption. Immortality allows us to live on when the ages end.
Again, there is not one verse in all the Bible which tells us God is trying to save mankind from Hell nor is there one verse which even remotely says if one does not believe in Jesus they will go to Hell.
I believe the blue above is what modern English speaking Americans consider as "eternal life".
Can you at least admit the same Greek word that describes eternal (or age pertaining, or age-during - whatever you want to call it) life also describes eternal punishment? However you want to describe the time frame - the life and the punishment will be concurrent.
The chief priests and rulers condemned Him. On what basis what Christ condemned?
I believe the blue above is what modern English speaking Americans consider as "eternal life".
Can you at least admit the same Greek word that describes eternal (or age pertaining, or age-during - whatever you want to call it) life also describes eternal punishment? However you want to describe the time frame - the life and the punishment will be concurrent.
Christ was charged with trumped-up charges of: treason, sedition and injured majesty.
Punishment in Scripture is Not synonymous with eternal torture because as 2nd Thess. 1 v 9 equates punishment with: destruction. Destruction such as: the wicked will be destroyed forever.- Psalm 92 v 7
Or, the unrepentant will perish forever - 2nd Peter 3 v 9
Jesus also taught 'perish' Not torture at John 3 v 16
Even emptied-out hell [ grave] ends up vacant and is destroyed in a symbolic 'second death' according to Rev. 20 vs 13,14.
The chief priests and rulers condemned Him. On what basis what Christ condemned?
God condemned His Son to the cross as well. "Cursed is everyone hanging on a tree."
I believe the blue above is what modern English speaking Americans consider as "eternal life".
Can you at least admit the same Greek word that describes eternal (or age pertaining, or age-during - whatever you want to call it) life also describes eternal punishment? However you want to describe the time frame - the life and the punishment will be concurrent.[/quote]
Of course the same word that tells us we will live for the eons/ages is the exact same word used to describe the punishment which is for the eons/ages.
When the eons/ages end we will no longer have age-during or eonian life or life pertaining to the eons.
Likewise the nations undergoing age-during punishment will no longer have age-during punishment. There is no Greek word telling us that the punishment lasts beyond the ages to come. The only way we know we will live beyond the ages when they end it by knowing we will put on immortality.
Again, if there is one verse in all the Bible which tells us God is trying to save mankind from Hell, please produce it.
If there is on verse in all the Bible that tells us If you don't believe in Jesus you will go to Hell/Gehenna/Lake of fire which is death, please produce it.
Christ was charged with trumped-up charges of: treason, sedition and injured majesty.
Punishment in Scripture is Not synonymous with eternal torture because as 2nd Thess. 1 v 9 equates punishment with: destruction. Destruction such as: the wicked will be destroyed forever.- Psalm 92 v 7
Or, the unrepentant will perish forever - 2nd Peter 3 v 9
Jesus also taught 'perish' Not torture at John 3 v 16
Even emptied-out hell [ grave] ends up vacant and is destroyed in a symbolic 'second death' according to Rev. 20 vs 13,14.
Destruction is not irremediable. Christ told His disciples if they destroyed their soul they would get it back later on. Jesus also came to the destroyed sheep of the house of Israel.
Psalm 92:7: (LXX) (91:8) ἐν τῷ ἀνατεῖλαι τοὺς ἁμαρτωλοὺς ὡς χόρτον καὶ διέκυψαν πάντες οἱ ἐργαζόμενοι τὴν ἀνομίαν, ὅπως ἂν ἐξολεθρευθῶσιν εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνος.
The LXX has it that they will be destroyed only for the eon of the eon, which is just one eon, not forever.
(ABP+) InG1722 theG3588 rising upG393 of theG3588 sinnersG268 asG5616 grass,G5528 andG2532 [5look onG1253.1 1allG3956 2theG3588 3ones workingG2038 G3588 4lawlessness],G458 that thusG3704 G302 they shall be utterly destroyedG1842 intoG1519 theG3588 eonG165 of theG3588 eon.G165
2 Peter 3:9 does not say the unrepentant will perish forever. Here it is:
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not tardy as to the promise, as some are deeming tardiness, but is patient because of you, not intending any to perish, but all to make room for repentance."
It just says God was not intending any of those Peter was writing to that they would perish.
Joh 3:16 For thus God loves the world, so that He gives His only-begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian."
John 3:17 tells us God is going to save the entire world.
Now then, where is that verse which tells us God is trying to save mankind from Hell?
Where is that verse which tell us if one does not believe in Jesus he will go to Hell for not believing in Jesus?
Christ has saved us from eternal separation from God, period. We are responsible for what we sow on the foundation of Christ's love for us all and will account for it in the judgment seat of Christ. We WILL reap what we sow and have not repented . . . but we are already "saved as by fire."
Christ has saved us from eternal separation from God, period. We are responsible for what we sow on the foundation of Christ's love for us all and will account for it in the judgment seat of Christ. We WILL reap what we sow and have not repented . . . but we are already "saved as by fire."
Nonetheless there is no verse in the Bible where it is said God is trying to save us from Hell or that you will go to Hell for not believing in Jesus.
Destruction is not irremediable. Christ told His disciples if they destroyed their soul they would get it back later on. Jesus also came to the destroyed sheep of the house of Israel.
Psalm 92:7: (LXX) (91:8) ἐν τῷ ἀνατεῖλαι τοὺς ἁμαρτωλοὺς ὡς χόρτον καὶ διέκυψαν πάντες οἱ ἐργαζόμενοι τὴν ἀνομίαν, ὅπως ἂν ἐξολεθρευθῶσιν εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνος.
The LXX has it that they will be destroyed only for the eon of the eon, which is just one eon, not forever.
(ABP+) InG1722 theG3588 rising upG393 of theG3588 sinnersG268 asG5616 grass,G5528 andG2532 [5look onG1253.1 1allG3956 2theG3588 3ones workingG2038 G3588 4lawlessness],G458 that thusG3704 G302 they shall be utterly destroyedG1842 intoG1519 theG3588 eonG165 of theG3588 eon.G165
2 Peter 3:9 does not say the unrepentant will perish forever. Here it is:
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not tardy as to the promise, as some are deeming tardiness, but is patient because of you, not intending any to perish, but all to make room for repentance."
It just says God was not intending any of those Peter was writing to that they would perish.
Joh 3:16 For thus God loves the world, so that He gives His only-begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian."
John 3:17 tells us God is going to save the entire world.
Now then, where is that verse which tells us God is trying to save mankind from Hell?
Where is that verse which tell us if one does not believe in Jesus he will go to Hell for not believing in Jesus?
No, God is Not going to save the entire world. God sent his Son [John 3 v 17 ] that the world to be saved through Jesus.
In other words, the world can not be saved by any other. Those committing the unforgivable sin are Not forgiven.
Matthew 12 v 32. What does Hebrews 6 vs 4-6 say ?________
Everyone in hell [ Not Gehenna ] is 'delivered up' [meaning resurrected out of hell] before hell ends up in 'second death'.
Hell is first emptied-out, then vacant hell is cast empty into that symbolic second death' according to Rev. 20 vs 13,14.
Just as 'believer Jesus' at his death went to hell [ Acts 2 vs 27,31] [ Psalm 92 v 7 was written in Hebrew, not Greek ]
all who are Not destroyed, at their death go to the 'Bible's hell' which is the just the sleeping condition of the dead while in mankind's common grave.
- John 11 vs 11-14; Ecclesiastes 9 v 5; Psalms 6 v 5; 13 v 3; 115 v 17; 146 v 4; Daniel 12 vs 2,13
Christ has saved us from eternal separation from God, period. We are responsible for what we sow on the foundation of Christ's love for us all and will account for it in the judgment seat of Christ. We WILL reap what we sow and have not repented . . . but we are already "saved as by fire."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Nonetheless there is no verse in the Bible where it is said God is trying to save us from Hell or that you will go to Hell for not believing in Jesus.
That is because there is no hell in the sense that is meant in mainstream Christianity . . .ie., eternal torment.
Did you know there is not one verse in all the Bible where it is said God wants to save you from hell? Not even one.
There is not even one verse in the Bible that says "If you don't believe in Jesus you will go to hell."
The Bible does tell us God is saving us from being sinning, dying beings.
The obvious conclusion for what happens to those who continue in willful sin is written here. One should not dilute the Truth to mans level of understanding. The Gospel is well able to save from hell, so there is no need to apologize for God's final judgment.
2PET 2:2-4 "And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. For if God spared not the Angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;" The conclusion is crystal clear.
Moreover, "aeonian life" means Eternal Life in the ages, not physical life forever. This kind of Life is for now and for forever and ever or in any age to come. When Jesus speaks of Life, He is not speaking of ordinary human spiritual or physical life but of the Eternal Life of God that is indestructible. The love and the joy of the Lord is Eternal and therefor timeless. He wants us to know that in Him we have that higher form of Life in the here in now in the context of time and forever and ever if we follow after Him.
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+*+*+*+*+God is not saving us from Hell+*+*+*+*
