U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-16-2013, 08:07 AM
 
1,499 posts, read 929,765 times
Reputation: 326

Advertisements

Recently I watched a nature show concerning a certain pack of lions. In it, one of the lionesses fell ill with a disease. As it was dying, flies were laying their eggs in her open sores, and vultures were flying overhead waiting for her to die. Now before she could succumb to the disease, a pack of hyenas found her at night, ready to eat her alive. The video last shows her growling at the hyenas as they circle her, then it skips to the next day, and there is no sign of her. Obviously, the hyenas ate her while she was still alive.

In another scene, there was another group of hyenas who successfully ran down a wildebeest. While the wildebeest was still alive, the hyenas were feasting on it from behind, working their way up to the front. You could hear the wildebeest groaning in pain, and within a couple of minutes it's eyes began to roll in the back of it's head because of the lost of blood.

In one last scene I will mention, four male lions came on to the main pack of lions being featured in this film. They sought to kill all the baby lions, and mate with the female lions of the pack. They showed film on one of these lions viciously killing two cubs. You can hear the narrator's voice saying pretty much even though it's cruel, this is just part of nature.


Now with all that said, a good bit of Christians believe in theistic evolution. That God created this place pretty much as we see it today. Francis Collins is a famous scientist who is a proponent of theistic evolution. He would tell you to look at God's creation, how things like evolution shows God's handiwork. Yet if God really created diseases, animals eating each other alive, and even animals eating humans, is that really God's handiwork? How do you reconcile God loving us, if He created animals that possibly sees us as a meal? (Not too mention all the natural disasters that goes on, and all the cruelty of nature)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-16-2013, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Deep Dirty South
5,192 posts, read 4,186,999 times
Reputation: 3813
Well, I admittedly do not tend towards the belief in gods, but when questions like this arise, I think of the Book of Job. In it, Job is visited by the worst personal tragedies and afflictions imagineable, sent by Yahweh, as part of a wager made with The Devil.

Job never really receives an explanation for his suffering. In fact, when he asks God why all this is happening to him, God essentially says "Who the #@*! do you think you are, asking Me such things?"

One of the things I take from this story is that we humans will never really have an explanation for the suffering, loss and sorrow we will all feel and experience from time to time in life. Those things are just part of the condition of existence itself.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2013, 08:39 AM
 
1,499 posts, read 929,765 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffis View Post
Well, I admittedly do not tend towards the belief in gods, but when questions like this arise, I think of the Book of Job. In it, Job is visited by the worst personal tragedies and afflictions imagineable, sent by Yahweh, as part of a wager made with The Devil.

Job never really receives an explanation for his suffering. In fact, when he asks God why all this is happening to him, God essentially says "Who the #@*! do you think you are, asking Me such things?"

One of the things I take from this story is that we humans will never really have an explanation for the suffering, loss and sorrow we will all feel and experience from time to time in life. Those things are just part of the condition of existence itself.

Ah, concerning the Book of Job, there's a lot to understand. It's not that God made a wager with Satan, it was that Satan made an accusation against Job and there was no one to defend Job. So God allowed Satan to trouble Job, in order to test out that accusation. Today, Jesus is our advocate, against all the accusations of Satan.


Yet all in all, no matter what we talk concerning Job, Job happened well after the creation of man. After the fall of man. If you take it literally, Satan now had Adam's domain over the earth, because Adam trusted Satan's words. So Satan had legal right to accuse Job in front of God. Theistic evolution eliminates all this understanding, even the Book of Job. It just comes down to God creating this place as is. There is no love to be taken from it, and it doesn't add up to what we know concerning God's plans for us. That God loves us. Yet we see all these problems in the earth, that a good bit of Christians say God created. It doesn't add up, when you consider God's own words.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2013, 08:56 AM
 
361 posts, read 607,216 times
Reputation: 508
Reconcile it? Easy, I don't have to do. Not my job. So I don't.

While I admire those who try, I would find it a most frustrating ride.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2013, 09:24 AM
 
1,499 posts, read 929,765 times
Reputation: 326
With all that said, are there any theistic evolutionists here who wish to discuss this issue? Can you give me good reason as to how you can reconcile evolutionary history with God's nature? I find those who do believe in theistic evolution, only do so because of scientific evidence. That it's only a matter of trying to wrap Scripture, around scientific evidence.


Now there is definitely an abudance of evidence to suggest the earth is billions of years old, and the universe is older still. There's an abudance of evidence to suggest all life evolved from a common organism. That is to be expected! If you consider the fall of man literally, really the fall of creation, there is no more example of the perfect creation God created. If we are walking by sight, it's is very easy to say the world we see today is how it's always been. But to get the truth, you're going to have to dig deeper than sight and observations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2013, 09:46 AM
 
1,499 posts, read 929,765 times
Reputation: 326
Moderator cut: Off topic


Very true. Yet as it pertains to what is written, how can we reconcile what we know as evolutionary history, with God's nature? I don't think a case can be made, it seems to be pulling God in two opposite directions from a God of love, to one who either doesn't care or is evil.

Last edited by june 7th; 03-17-2013 at 06:50 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2013, 04:28 PM
 
7,874 posts, read 6,684,285 times
Reputation: 1374
So look at that Chicken dinner you eat , and say How could God do that give us chicken to eat ? ..... See God has a purpose for carnivores to eat meat , as He created people to eat meat and vegetables sources ...... He created some animal to eat vegetables , and some to eat meat , and when you go and ask God He will tell you ` I got a purpose and plan `....I do not believe in the atheistic theory of evolution of the species as you go look at the trilobite species which appeared out of know were fully developed in the fossil record , with eyes, head, body and tail, with no animal which it evolved from came before it , then it survived for 270 million years and died out ...It appears as no evolution occurred for this animal ... Even the homo sapiens never evolved from Neanderthal species , as this species is more close to the chimp kind than homo sapiens ...... See God is the missing link between the species ....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2013, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Up above the world so high!
45,270 posts, read 86,188,712 times
Reputation: 39684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
Recently I watched a nature show concerning a certain pack of lions. In it, one of the lionesses fell ill with a disease. As it was dying, flies were laying their eggs in her open sores, and vultures were flying overhead waiting for her to die. Now before she could succumb to the disease, a pack of hyenas found her at night, ready to eat her alive. The video last shows her growling at the hyenas as they circle her, then it skips to the next day, and there is no sign of her. Obviously, the hyenas ate her while she was still alive.

In another scene, there was another group of hyenas who successfully ran down a wildebeest. While the wildebeest was still alive, the hyenas were feasting on it from behind, working their way up to the front. You could hear the wildebeest groaning in pain, and within a couple of minutes it's eyes began to roll in the back of it's head because of the lost of blood.

In one last scene I will mention, four male lions came on to the main pack of lions being featured in this film. They sought to kill all the baby lions, and mate with the female lions of the pack. They showed film on one of these lions viciously killing two cubs. You can hear the narrator's voice saying pretty much even though it's cruel, this is just part of nature.


Now with all that said, a good bit of Christians believe in theistic evolution. That God created this place pretty much as we see it today. Francis Collins is a famous scientist who is a proponent of theistic evolution. He would tell you to look at God's creation, how things like evolution shows God's handiwork. Yet if God really created diseases, animals eating each other alive, and even animals eating humans, is that really God's handiwork? How do you reconcile God loving us, if He created animals that possibly sees us as a meal? (Not too mention all the natural disasters that goes on, and all the cruelty of nature)
hmmmm....what is there to reconcile? First it should be noted that disease is not considered one of God's creations.

Disease is a consequence of something going wrong somewhere in the natural normal healthy function of something.

And animals eating other animals is just their nature, the way they dominate and survive. The way the animal kingdom is naturally set up to keep the strongest of any species alive and to keep it from being over populated. Animals aren't human after all. They don't have souls or get free will, so I'm not sure why you'd think God is somehow "unloving" for his natural order in the animal kingdom.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2013, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,574 posts, read 7,029,485 times
Reputation: 1607
Assuming that God made the universe, why would you assume that results ("I never promised you a rose garden") are of more import than the processes? How we deal with what happens is, imo, far more important than what happens.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2013, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Deep Dirty South
5,192 posts, read 4,186,999 times
Reputation: 3813
I love how the god so many people adhere to belief in is supposed to be all-powerful and all-knowing and gets all the credit for everything good that happens, but none of the blame for tragedies and atrocities.

We praise god for sparing the life of a person who was, say, hit by a tornado. They may have lost their possessions, their home and the rest of their family, but "Thanks be to God" that they were spared.

So fervently illogical.

A poster above said God is not responsible for disease. So, is disease a surprise to God? An unintended by-product of the condition of life? What a cop out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top