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Old 10-26-2007, 11:16 AM
 
Location: All around the world.....
2,886 posts, read 7,495,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaykay View Post
A friend of mine always says that in any disagreement with his wife, he always gets in the last word... and it's "yes, dear!"

I think our opinions on male and female "roles" so to speak are going to likely fall according to how literally we interpret the Bible. And you know kaykay interprets it pretty literally. I do think that the Lord has given the primary role of leadership to the man. Doesn't mean that He views women as "less" in any way, just different. I do think the way that our psychological make-up has been constructed is different between the sexes. Like we discussed recently on another thread, I do believe that women may be more prone to deception than men because, in general, and note, I did say, in general, I think men tend to be more skeptical by nature than women and in this area, it serves them well. I think this is why the apostle Paul says that he does not want a woman in authority over a man or teaching men.

What does this mean exactly? It's interpreted different ways obviously. I do believe that women can teach, but I think that they should not be formulating doctrine apart from the "covering" and authority of men. In my own church we do have female teachers and elders. I do think they need to be submitted to male spiritual authority though.

In the home, I think God has given the primary leadership to the man. Doesn't mean a women can't express her opinion, desires, feelings etc. But at the end of the day, I believe it is the man who is primarily responsible for the leadership of the family. As I say about soooo many things, it is all about BALANCE. The women is exhorted biblically to submit to her husband's authority in the home, but the man is also exhorted to love his wife as Christ loved the church laying down His life for her. Pretty heavy expectation on the male side also. And just to ward off any extremism...no, a woman shouldn't submit to anything that would be sinful just because the husband demands it. (This is where balance and common sense come in.)

Quote:
Also, this certainly doesn't mean that a woman can't be a strong decisive individual. There are quite a few strong women who are lauded in the Bible.
Abigail, Jael, Deborah to name a few that come to mind immediately...
Check out the woman described in "Proverbs 31." Strong to be sure...



Good points kaykay;
An exception to submission were
When Abigail diregarded her husband Nabal's orders , since he had decreed that no provisions be made for David from his wealth instead she delivered massive amounts of goods to David "the future king" and begged him not to retaliate against their household in response to Nabal's refusal to help; "he's a fool" she said.
She was concerned that David " the annointed king" not bloody his hands over Nabal's churlish behavior; she did this to protect her husband's life and all of the men's lives in her household. God struck down her foolish husband Nabal, David received her generosity and Abigail was richly rewarded for her efforts;
once she became a widow then David took her for his wife.
An example of a husband abusing his authority; human authority can be abused; we as children of God must be obedient to Him first; whether man or woman.
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Old 10-26-2007, 11:42 AM
 
7,808 posts, read 10,684,750 times
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Moderator cut: Good afternoon, all! While most of this has made for very enjoyable and at times, humorous reading, I'm afraid I had to "clean up" some of the posts. Just a reminder to stay on topic. Thanks!!! --June
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Old 10-26-2007, 12:20 PM
 
Location: All around the world.....
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[quote=yhwhshalomjr;1831248]In a these days of Human Secularism and Subjectivism, some may feel that anything goes when it comes to marriage and other roles of women and men relationships.
From a Biblical point of view what are your thoughts on women usurping authority over men in and out of the physical church, and in other facets of life.
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Old 10-26-2007, 01:51 PM
 
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Did the lord tell white men to free the black slaves before he was to free his white wife from slavery?
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Old 10-26-2007, 01:56 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
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Wink The old ball & chain

Originally Posted by 2speakoutloud1free
Quote:
Did the lord tell white men to free the black slaves before he was to free his white wife from slavery?
Marriage as slavery?
I guess that's why I'm still single.------> I think, therefore I'm single.
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Old 10-26-2007, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Indiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2speakoutloud1free View Post
Did the lord tell white men to free the black slaves before he was to free his white wife from slavery?
I'm not sure what you're getting at. Can you clarify? Thanks!
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Old 10-26-2007, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Somewhere along the path to where I'd like to be.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by 2speakoutloud1free Marriage as slavery?
I guess that's why I'm still single.------> I think, therefore I'm single.
For some reason, your post made me think of a bumper sticker I saw the other day. It stated:

So Many Men, So Many Reasons to Sleep Alone.
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Old 10-26-2007, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCRob View Post
For some reason, your post made me think of a bumper sticker I saw the other day. It stated:

So Many Men, So Many Reasons to Sleep Alone.
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Old 10-26-2007, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Somewhere along the path to where I'd like to be.
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Why are you confused? It was on the back of a woman's car.
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Old 10-27-2007, 05:36 AM
Status: "The nicest curve on a woman's body is her smile" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Florida/Tennessee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yhwhshalomjr View Post
In a these days of Human Secularism and Subjectivism, some may feel that anything goes when it comes to marriage and other roles of women and men relationships.
From a Biblical point of view what are your thoughts on women usurping authority over men in and out of the physical church, and in other facets of lifeWomen over Men
I'm not sure if "subjectivism" would be limited to, or associated only with human secularists. However........ Realitivism is what I've observed when secularist process information... but this is only personal observations.

I have found very little usurping of authority, but have found that when men fail or become disheartened ... they ( men) "relinquish" authority. It "generally" is a matter of commitment failure on the part of the man, which reveals itself by blaming others. Leadership will always be the source of success and failure. Cut of the head and the body will die. Often it's very simple and subtle ... "OK you do it... or... men just quietly quit. If we go back to Genesis, we re-discover that the woman has a "desire", for her husband. This simply means she wishes to be in control, but not from a position of ultimate authority (within the family), but rather the steering influence. Where does this come from? and how is it manifested? The same place the "honey do" list comes from. She must have her needs met to feel secure within her role as a helpmeet, otherwise, she looses self esteem and feels unloved. This is how a slave feels. Worthless and subject to a tyrant. Women who do not have their needs provided for will go fill them on their own eventually. Happens all the time.

The womans role in preventing failure is very simply a matter of support and encouragement. The very thing she needs (love) is the very thing that motivates her to express respect for her husband. Remove any one of these two components, and a cycle of falure looms within the relationship.

Eph 5:33 Nevertheless, each one of you must also love his own wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Notice the word "must". This is not a request, or a suggestion, this is a command. Men must love their wives as themselves, is a command to provide...... not take them to the game or to home depot. Love manifests itself through provision, by the man, for the woman. Keep this command from God... and the marriage has a Biblical foundations to build and grow upon. Therefore why would a woman want to usurp her husband if all her needs are met? and why would a man relinquish his authority if he feels respected?

Here is a precursor for divorce... first the woman... " I love him but I have not respect for him" and then the man... "I respect her but I don't love her". We are not commanded to give what we "naturally" give. A woman knows how to love and a man understands respect, that's why God tells us to give to the other what they so desperately need to be fulfilled.

OK... back on track. Now with that said, the Bible presents a very logical process to support God's logic. Man as the head, as the navigator, but needing help ( mans helpmeet). Both woman and man have have their roles Biblically and spiritually. Each obedient to God, and accountable to each other. As obvious as it is "who bears the children", it is equally obvious that we are created/prepared to fulfill different roles within the structure of life.

Church...... and the roles of men and women. Since the roles we fill have nothing to do with our salvation... there is some latitude in interpertation, IMO. I do not believe women should teach doctrine to men. However if there was a class at church teaching men about women, well ... that's a womans role. Information is different than teaching. Teaching includes "how" to think, and I believe men should teach other men how to think like a man, within the context of church.

Prv 27: 17 as iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Other facets of life. Well... I'm of the opinion, best person for the job, and if that's a man... or a woman... then have at it.
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