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Old 03-25-2013, 03:00 PM
 
367 posts, read 281,364 times
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WoW! How do you discuss something with people who will not accept a simple fact? If you reject that "aion" in and of itself is limited then you don't enough knowledge to be discussing this topic.



Cultic faith is designed to get one to reject truth and claim darkness as light! Here we see it in action.

 
Old 03-25-2013, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Germany
1,647 posts, read 1,712,214 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisWayne View Post
WoW! How do you discuss something with people who will not accept a simple fact? If you reject that "aion" in and of itself is limited then you don't enough knowledge to be discussing this topic.



Cultic faith is designed to get one to reject truth and claim darkness as light! Here we see it in action.
As you seem to be a bit acquainted with the Greek language I'm still awaiting your reply on my post. I would also like to examinate the use of aion in Plato's Timaios, it was you who brought it into the game in another thread if I remember correctly?
 
Old 03-25-2013, 03:24 PM
 
367 posts, read 281,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
As you seem to be a bit acquainted with the Greek language I'm still awaiting your reply on my post. I would also like to examinate the use of aion in Plato's Timaios, it was you who brought it into the game in another thread if I remember correctly?
Not sure what post your referring to. Tired of going around in circles with people who reject facts. I have decided to let this thread go since it is useless. I have never discussed Plato.
 
Old 03-25-2013, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Germany
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Concerning Plato I have mixed you up with somebody else, his argumentation was very similar and he was acquainted of Greek also, sorry. It was this thread where the controversy arose: What Did Thomas Mean in Verse John 20:28 saying "My Lord and My God?"

My thoughts on the use of aion in Plato: http://www.city-data.com/forum/28499527-post231.html

However the post I primarly meant was this, page 9 in this thread : http://www.city-data.com/forum/28823074-post71.html

I'm interested in a scholarly discussion, overwhelming emotions and unnecessary polemics help nobody.
 
Old 03-25-2013, 03:40 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,456,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
You said God or punishments.




I don't have the communication problem. I let you know when I don't understand something.

I believe that eternal means forever when used in the Bible - God as King, eternal life, eternal punishment at the prescribed time - all unending.
Did you not read this post of mine? . . . http://www.city-data.com/forum/28828959-post98.html

Quote:
In YOUR case... you want to say punishment is not forever - fine. But for consistency, you should not be proclaiming everyone is saved because eternal life is not forever.
I'm sorry DRob4JC, I didn't say "all will be saved because eternal life is not forever." If anything, I would have said, all punishments occur and last within the framework of the ages/eons. They do not go beyond the ages/eons. They are eonian or pertaining to the eons.

Quote:
And you can't believe that God will be King forever - because the Bible never indicates God is King forever according to you.
I never said God can't be King forever. I said Jesus can't be King forever for the express reason that He will quit reigning, give up the kingdom to God (1 Cor.15:22-28).

We really need to keep clear what I am saying and what you are saying. I appreciate your input into this thread.
 
Old 03-26-2013, 12:35 AM
 
Location: Canada
6,643 posts, read 4,004,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisWayne View Post
WoW! How do you discuss something with people who will not accept a simple fact? If you reject that "aion" in and of itself is limited then you don't enough knowledge to be discussing this topic.



Cultic faith is designed to get one to reject truth and claim darkness as light! Here we see it in action.


This is rich coming from one who does not accept the fact that scripture tells us the aions have a beginning and an end and cannot find even 1 scripture to back up his own belief stating that the aions are without beginning and without end.

And also turns around and changes the meaning of eternal to mean without end.

Does no one else find it a little weird that those who believe in eternal torment have to make up their own definition of the word eternal?
 
Old 03-26-2013, 12:36 AM
 
Location: Canada
6,643 posts, read 4,004,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Not necessarily a reference to time - but the fact the God does not change. What about the eternal and for ever and ever part in green above in the 1 Timothy verse?
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
The literal rendering of this verse is thus (Darby translation):

Now to the King of the ages, [the] incorruptible, invisible, only God, honour and glory to the ages of ages. Amen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
Freaking translation? This has nothing to do with root words, the Greek text has the plural of the noun aion not the adjective aionios, even if aionios would mean endless, the proper translation still would be "King of ages"; or "King of endlessnesses" if you insist on this meaning and think this would make sense

I would actually not bet that aionios life is endless, see here:

Matthew 25:46

Wether aionios life is endless or not, I believe aionios punishment is not endless.



Where does the Bible teach this?
What svenM said
 
Old 03-26-2013, 12:40 AM
 
Location: Illinois
2,415 posts, read 2,357,338 times
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Default An absolutist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegiver View Post
absolutely!!!
how rare and refreshing......especially after moses posted.
 
Old 03-26-2013, 06:25 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,456,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM
I would actually not bet that aionios life is endless, see here:

Matthew 25:46

Wether aionios life is endless or not, I believe aionios punishment is not endless.
svenM,
I went to your link.
It seems to me that aionios does not change its meaning due to what it is modifying. The eonian times and eonian God of Romans 16:25,26 and the eonian life and eonian chastening of Matthew 25:46 are all pertaining to the eons.

"Eonian God" is not telling us if God is everlasting or not. It is telling us about His relationship to the eons. Likewise the eonian times is telling us about the times pertaining to the eons. The life of the sheep nations (not believers) is the life pertaining to the eons and the chastening of the goat nations (not unbelievers) is pertaining to the eons.


 
Old 03-26-2013, 06:57 AM
 
367 posts, read 281,364 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
Concerning Plato I have mixed you up with somebody else, his argumentation was very similar and he was acquainted of Greek also, sorry. It was this thread where the controversy arose: What Did Thomas Mean in Verse John 20:28 saying "My Lord and My God?"

My thoughts on the use of aion in Plato: http://www.city-data.com/forum/28499527-post231.html

However the post I primarly meant was this, page 9 in this thread : http://www.city-data.com/forum/28823074-post71.html

I'm interested in a scholarly discussion, overwhelming emotions and unnecessary polemics help nobody.
I have never studied Plato but as I recall his writings are in Classical Greek rather then Koine Greek. I would have to study it out to see how the meanings of the words were used in Classical Greek as opposed to Koine Greek to discuss it. I really don't see that would be of any value to the discussion though since we have enough koine sources to ascertain the usage and meanings of words at the time the scriptures were written.

Have fun with this thread. I must move on to something of more value.
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