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Old 03-24-2013, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,912,231 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Since the Bible is not written ABC as a dictionary, then we need to study Scripture by subject or topic arrangement.
The Bible has corresponding or parallel reference passages and verses. So by comparing what the Bible writers had to say on one subject or topic at a time then the meaning can become clear. Even a comprehensive concordance can serve as a quick locator of Bible words.
So......the people in the various denominations who have done3 this and still disagree?
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 7,014,610 times
Reputation: 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
"Oracles" is something like "sayings." That the Bible contains words from God, and what is needed to come to a relationship with Him through the Spirit is not in dispute. That the Bible as we have received it is entirely God's words or contains God's entire words is.

Yes, indeed, The Spirit is needed to understand the Bible. Why then is the Bible considered the ultimate authority.

Test the spirits........by the results of the teachings.
I completely agree. Excellently communicated! Thank you.
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Texas and Arkansas
1,341 posts, read 1,529,823 times
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Nateswift or Heartsong, which part of the Bible that we have today IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD?

Just wanting clarification of the parts that you two believe are not the oracles of God.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:14 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,912,231 times
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Some of the perceptions of God that are not consistent with the teachings of Christ. Just as an example you might look at the encounter of God with Abraham as God was on his way to find out whether what he had heard about Sodom and Gomorrah was true or not. Or histories in which God was a tribal deity in conflict with others of the same caliber as in accounts of the conquest of Israel. Anything that appears to be redacted by people with agendas and which is in conflict with the Spirit of love.

Once again it is a question of authority and the reasons for choosing what you find appropriate; why is it so important to you that the Bible be inerrant and directly inspired or essentially dictated by God
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:07 AM
 
Location: Pilot Point, TX
7,874 posts, read 14,173,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Some of the perceptions of God that are not consistent with the teachings of Christ.
While that is true, we also have a completely new covenant - with entirely different results.

The OT view was crushing: I will remember your sins, even to the third and fourth generation.
The NT jubilee: I will remember your sins no more.

And on and on...

I believe if Christians could get that fact straight, we'd have a much easier walk with others - and a lot less arguing.
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Hephzibah, GA
281 posts, read 306,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
While that is true, we also have a completely new covenant - with entirely different results.

The OT view was crushing: I will remember your sins, even to the third and fourth generation.

The NT jubilee: I will remember your sins no more.

And on and on...

I believe if Christians could get that fact straight, we'd have a much easier walk with others - and a lot less arguing.
Of course, the quoted OT verse was speaking to national Israel in the bilateral convenant between God and Israel, not of individual sins.

Is. 43.25 - I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, And I will not remember your sins.

Is. 38:17 - Lo, it is for my own welfare that I had bitterness; it is You who has kept my soul from the pit of destruction [or nothingness], for You have cast all my sins behind my back.

Ps. 103:17 - But the lovingkindess of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting on those who fear Him, and His righteousness to children's children.

Ex. 20:5-6 - You shall not worship them,or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. (see also Deut. 7:9)


There has always been the underlying thought of personal forgiveness based on God's lovingkindess (mercy - hessed). David sang songs about it, Job looked forward to the day of his redemption. Everyone always points to national promises of remembering sins and uses them as proof that God was vengeful to individuals, remembering their sins 'to the third and fourth generation' and 'upon their children's children's children.' We need to see the difference in God speaking to the nation and to individuals.

Notice that in the last verse, the conditional curse is on 'of those who hate Me,' and the the conditional blessing is on 'those who love Me and keep My commandments.' It is both a national and an individual promise. Israel was chastend when they went after false Gods, even 'to the third and fourth generations' yet individuals were blessed in spite of the national chastisement (think Daniel and his companions, Ester and Mordecai, etc.)
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Pilot Point, TX
7,874 posts, read 14,173,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wretched.elect View Post
Of course, the quoted OT verse was speaking to national Israel in the bilateral convenant between God and Israel, not of individual sins.

Is. 43.25 - I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, And I will not remember your sins.

Is. 38:17 - Lo, it is for my own welfare that I had bitterness; it is You who has kept my soul from the pit of destruction [or nothingness], for You have cast all my sins behind my back.

Ps. 103:17 - But the lovingkindess of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting on those who fear Him, and His righteousness to children's children.

Ex. 20:5-6 - You shall not worship them,or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. (see also Deut. 7:9)


There has always been the underlying thought of personal forgiveness based on God's lovingkindess (mercy - hessed). David sang songs about it, Job looked forward to the day of his redemption. Everyone always points to national promises of remembering sins and uses them as proof that God was vengeful to individuals, remembering their sins 'to the third and fourth generation' and 'upon their children's children's children.' We need to see the difference in God speaking to the nation and to individuals.

Notice that in the last verse, the conditional curse is on 'of those who hate Me,' and the the conditional blessing is on 'those who love Me and keep My commandments.' It is both a national and an individual promise. Israel was chastend when they went after false Gods, even 'to the third and fourth generations' yet individuals were blessed in spite of the national chastisement (think Daniel and his companions, Ester and Mordecai, etc.)
It's just a matter of faith vs works - that's the issue set before the church today - and that's what I'm talking about.

He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. (Gal 3:5-6)

We're not given a license to sin, but an admonition to take our eyes off of sin and look firmly on Him for our righteousness - our righteousness is as filty rags.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:42 AM
 
140 posts, read 132,697 times
Reputation: 29
The Old Testament is in the New Testament (revealed)

The New Testament is in the Old Testament (concealed)

Paul says we are justified by faith: He took one verse out of the book of Habakkuk and created 3 Epistles around this one verse. The just shall live by faith.

James comes along and says it is by "works". Which one is correct ? They both are - THE ANSWER: IS located in the Book Of Galatians = Faith that Works -by LOVE!
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Pilot Point, TX
7,874 posts, read 14,173,178 times
Reputation: 4819
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeeperZ View Post
The Old Testament is in the New Testament (revealed)

The New Testament is in the Old Testament (concealed)

Paul says we are justified by faith: He took one verse out of the book of Habakkuk and created 3 Epistles around this one verse. The just shall live by faith.

James comes along and says it is by "works". Which one is correct ? They both are - THE ANSWER: IS located in the Book Of Galatians = Faith that Works -by LOVE!
Lol - I believe (!) it's the faith that produces works...but in another bizarre twist, it's not our faith but His!

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ. (Gal 2:16)
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