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Old 04-02-2013, 01:00 PM
 
4,217 posts, read 2,765,505 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zur View Post
Hallo Sparrow!
You are right, God is love and it is essential for our faith to know that. He died for us at the cross. It is finished. Thats the candy you believe. I do believe also. But the scriture tells us that God is a consuming fire. Without holiness no one will see Him. Not every one that says Lord (that are believers) will enter heaven but those that do the will of the Father. Paul tells us who does certain sins will not enter the kingdom of God. Jesus warns us to better pull out our eye than go to hell. That is the other side of the coin you do not like, but is still Gods word and I could go on and on, but you will not listen because you want only the candy. God does not throw anyone into hell, he saved us from hell. But if you think and this is also true for ASOS, if we do not follow Him and do not remind in Him and this is conditional, we will be saved, that is not faith but wishful thinking, because it is not backed up by scripture. We will be judged by His word. The Father in Heaven will keep His house clean, no unclean think will enter. They overcame by the blood of the lamb and their testimony, become an overcomer.
God bless!
Agreed. Only those that do the will of God will enter His kingdom.

"No one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born from above. No one can enter the kingdom of god unless they are born of water and spirit. Flesh makes flesh. Spirit makes spirit. Everyone must be born from above."
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:53 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 12,432,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacegiver View Post
Agreed. Only those that do the will of God will enter His kingdom.

"No one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born from above. No one can enter the kingdom of god unless they are born of water and spirit. Flesh makes flesh. Spirit makes spirit. Everyone must be born from above."

" unless they are born of water and spirit"
...... that's baptism btw
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:08 PM
 
Location: NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Where does it state that HaShem gave us free will?...

Who?
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:51 PM
 
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In Matthew 24 : 12-13......``And because iniquity will abound , the love of many will wax cold ...but he that will endure to the end , the same will be saved ......``.....See Jesus said some may fall away and turn back to the world and lose the salvation of Christ on their life ... ..Faith is hard and iniquity is easy , so people need to trust the Lord and keep to Him and believe and He will keep them .... ...
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,832,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
But since we have other scriptures, it states we do not have a choice when spiritually dead.
We can not by our own reason or strength choose for God. When left to ourselves, humanity chooses to reject God. That is why previously God told them what to choose ....
Deuteronomy 30:19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live
and that was what Joshua was doing when he saying "Choose whom you will serve". He was telling them what God did earlier.
I'm sorry, but that doesn't make a lick of sense to me. "Choose" means exercise freedom of choice, freedom of choice requires freedom of the will to choose. Any other interpretation looks to me like sophistry to support/serve a doctrine of men plain and simple.
Choose whom you will serve.
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:27 PM
 
63,461 posts, read 39,726,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
A few things:
1. Why do you equate "love" with a grandfather sitting in his rocking chair? I don't understand the correlation. Love is the most POWERFUL thing in existence, for God *IS* Love.
Love isn't feeble or weak.
God doesn't just have love.
God *IS* Love.
I think you are confusing a force with an emotion.
2. You said:
He subjected us to futility and then gave us the "option" to either go to an eternal torture chamber (hell) or stay with him forever. You say it is simple and easy. I find it decidely difficult to understand why anyone would think this idea is coming from the Creator of all things.
It is NOT an option, sparrow. Only those who believe in a Godfather like Vito Corleone would consider it a real option!!!
Quote:
Perfect love casts out ALL fear.
There is NO fear in LOVE.
Mainstream christianity preaches this message of ABSOLUTE fear.
Jesus is STILL being crucified to this day. All one has to do is look to those who preach the anti-christ message, the message of fear. Even so, "Father forgive them, they know not what they do.."
"Come out of her, my people..."
Do you have perfect peace over the fate of your loved ones?
What about your neighbor?
What about me... a stranger on the internet?
Do you have perfect peace? Or do you FEAR that some of us may end up in "hell"?
If you do not fear, are you then NOT loving your neighbor as yourself?
There is MUCH to ponder with the idea of a God (who IS Love) sending some or most of the beings that HE created into an eternal torture chamber. If you are not pondering and instead accepting it as "simple and easy".... something is wrong.
Amen, sparrow! It is a heinous message . . . a corruption of the Good News Christ brought to us ALL.
Quote:
Love God with all of your heart, mind and soul. You cannot love anything or anyone with ALL of your heart, ALL of your mind and ALL of your soul... if you do not yet know this thing or person with ALL of your heart, ALL of your mind and ALL of your soul.
This first command was for OUR benefit. NOT for God's benefit. It is a push for us to SEARCH Him out. "Seek and you shall find"
A command for us to push ourselves into getting to KNOW Him. We will NOT know God with all of our mind, heart and soul while on this earth. But again, the command is a PUSH for us to start to peel back the layers and get to know His true character: LOVE.
Keep in mind "God is LOVE" while reading 1 Corinthians 13.
Peace to you on your journey,
sparrow
God Bless and Peace in Christ's love to you, sparrow. I still cannot rep you.
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:32 PM
 
4,684 posts, read 6,088,746 times
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Last fall, i did a thread:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/chris...g-kingdom.html

This was mainly in response to annoying CD member who was obsessed with Herbet Armstrong and COG and thought just about all of Christianity was going to hell and no one was saved unless they kept the Sabbath and feast day. But i will list the verses again


Galatians 5:19-21
New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[a] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[b] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.


Ephesians 5:5
5 For this you know,[a] that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.


Colossians 3:5-9
5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.
8 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds,

Hebrews 10:26-29

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?



Revelation 20:15
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:8
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[a] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”


While you cant earn salavtion, we are required to be separate from the world and live holy as well. I know many in many people in the church that has confessed with their mouth and believe in their heart Jesus is lord and that would make them saved and they were 100% faithful an involved in the church, but something happened in their life and they have either stopped coming to church, live adulterous lifestyle, or involved in sexual immorality all the time and have no regrets about it . I know some will say they were never really saved, but how can that be if the confessed and turned from their sins and were living right, but after a while just quit doing what God commands and wanted to do their own thing.


Which brings back the question, if you are always saved, is scripture untrue when it says that if you live these lifestyles above that you will not go to heaven?
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
Jesus is STILL being crucified to this day.
And they divide his garments up, amongst themselves.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:43 AM
Zur
 
949 posts, read 825,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post

" unless they are born of water and spirit"
...... that's baptism btw
If you mean water stands for water baptism than spirit stands for the baptism in the Holy Spirit as some Penticostals believe, I do not think so. We have not to speak in tongues to be born again. I know a brother who wanted to save "Baptists" by baptizing them in the Holy Spirit, he never succeded. The same will happen to you, if you want to save a Catholic, Lutheran etc by trying to baptize them in water. They will tell you we are already saved through our faith in Christ, no need for your ritual and legalistic believe. You exclude all of them to be saved.
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:47 AM
 
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Didn't Jesus teach at Matthew 24 v 13 that one must endure to the end in order to be saved ?______

We can endure by dying faithful to one's death, or endure alive on Earth until the 'time of separation' of Matthew 25 vs 31,32.
The humble 'sheep'-like ones are alive on Earth at that separation time and can remain saved alive, rescued or delivered through the 'great tribulation' - Revelation 7 v 14 - Saved alive right into the start of Jesus' coming 1000-year reign over Earth.
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