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Originally Posted by cg81 Like I said, I don't definitely know what the mark will be... but if it was actually a number 666 I'm sure not many would have it! And it very likely will be something of which most are not aware.
The portion I bolded is the part that I disagree with. The reason being is found in the scripture I quoted earlier.
Revelation 13:16-17
16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
It sounds like the mark will be forced on everyone. If you are unable to buy or sell unless you comply, that would be a sign that it could be the mark.
What I meant was, most will not see it as the mark of the beast. I know that some have thought it was internet commerce... the internet is a powerful tool, yet very dangerous... and most traffic is probably sinful.
What I meant was, most will not see it as the mark of the beast. I know that some have thought it was internet commerce... the internet is a powerful tool, yet very dangerous... and most traffic is probably sinful.
Ok..I see what you are saying.
Which brings me to another question. Do you believe the rapture will occure pre-trib or post-trib? (I'll stick with the rules you laid out in the OP and not judge you for your views. ) Seriously, I'm just curious. I can see the argument on both sides, I just want to know where you are coming from with all of the other items you have brought up.
Which brings me to another question. Do you believe the rapture will occure pre-trib or post-trib? (I'll stick with the rules you laid out in the OP and not judge you for your views. ) Seriously, I'm just curious. I can see the argument on both sides, I just want to know where you are coming from with all of the other items you have brought up.
I believe that the next thing that is to happen regarding prophecy is Christ's return, when the dead shall rise, He will judge the world, and we will rise to meet Him in the air and forever be with Him. The other things such as anti-christ, deception, loosing of Satan are IMO are already in motion..and we don't know how far God will let this go.. or how much Satan will be loosed before God says this is enough. And I also don't know when or how the mark of the beast will come..
There are different places where it refers to a tribulation.. which were you referring to? (sorry, can't find verse)
Well, I was looking for a verse, but I came across this instead. Sorry for jumping around, but if you could explain this passage I would appreciate it.
It is Revelation 20:1-6. The first 19 chapters deal with the judgements that are to be poured out upon the earth. Then we come to this passage:
Revelation 20:1-6
The Thousand Years
1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. 2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.
4Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
Regarding the bolded portions of the text:
It says that Satan will be bound and thrown into the pit so that for the 1000 years, he will be unable to deceive the nations. In looking at our world, I would have to say that the deceptions of Satan are very evident.
The next portion says that the souls who had been beheaded and those who had refused to worship the beast or take his mark will come back to life and then reign with Christ for 1000 years. If we are already in the 1000 years, but we haven't yet seen the beast or the mark, how do you reconcile this chain of events?
I believe that the next thing that is to happen regarding prophecy is Christ's return, when the dead shall rise, He will judge the world, and we will rise to meet Him in the air and forever be with Him. The other things such as anti-christ, deception, loosing of Satan are IMO are already in motion..and we don't know how far God will let this go.. or how much Satan will be loosed before God says this is enough. And I also don't know when or how the mark of the beast will come..
IMHO...the things such as the anit-christ etc. that you mention will happen after the rapture of the church..the the anti Christ will step up on the world scene, there will be one world religion, one world goverment. the anti-christ will deceive many..I believe that there is 7 year trib period..I refer to Daniel chapter 7..Instead of typing it all..Instead I refer you to a website.
7 Year Tribulation (http://ezinearticles.com/?7-Year-Tribulation&id=27474 - broken link)
**after review of this website..I find I do disagree with one thing..I dont agree that all nations will fight agaisnt the anti-christ, but against Israel.
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I believe in a literal thousand year reign that is still to come for two reasons:
1) The OT promises/prophecies given to the Jews--I don't see where some of those promises have been fulfilled. Since God always keeps His word, I see a future fulfillment.
2) I believe Creation Week was a pattern by which we could time events. I believe 6000 years of human history are drawing to a close, and God is about to enter his 1000 year rest. Looking at events around the world, I believe we are on the cusp of that change.
As for the rest of prophecy, I believe we see through a glass darkly. I'm not convinced popular teaching is totally accurate. I've read some intriguing things recently that have me wondering if we fully understand the timeline of Daniel's 70th week and the various "days" and "times" mentioned in prophecy. I do think we need to be careful to interpret Scripture with Scripture rather than by man's thinking.
1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. 2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.
I explained this in a previous post when I went over all the verses, but probably didn't explain clear enough. Basically, after Adam and Eve fell, a Redeemer was promised. This is what this is talking about...the fulfillment of the promise. (I think Alpha will know what I'm talking about when I say John was "prophecying") Before this, there was no hope for nations other than the Israelite people.. Satan had complete control over their destiny. He also would have had complete control over our souls.. if Christ had not come. This was all a result of the deception which resulted in Adam and Eve disobeying God, and resulted in the fall of man. So what this is saying is that this hold was broken.
Quote:
4Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Somewhat different wording, and yet both could be correct.. What it is talking about is those who became spiritually alive and entered Christ's kingdom.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
To explain this verse again, there are many who remain dead, not accepting the plan of salvation. All will be made physically alive at the judgement, after the "thousand years". The first resurrection is the spiritual, the next is the physical. All will have part of the physical.
Quote:
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Now this is probably the clearest of all the verses.. If we take part in the first spiritual resurrection of our souls (born again), we will have no part of the second death. (The first death being when man fell into sin, and all after Adam had part of this death; the second death being eternal death in hell.)
As for the rest of prophecy, I believe we see through a glass darkly. I'm not convinced popular teaching is totally accurate. I've read some intriguing things recently that have me wondering if we fully understand the timeline of Daniel's 70th week and the various "days" and "times" mentioned in prophecy. I do think we need to be careful to interpret Scripture with Scripture rather than by man's thinking.
I really tend to agree with Blueberry here. I really think this is why I have not delved into a whole lot of things about end-time and beyond end-time prophecy in the Bible because quite frankly, I think a lot of it is mystery and I'm not sure we will understand until it unfolds. I think a lot of times very good teachers and scholars disagree on meanings. Not that it isn't worthy of study. God did give it to us after all, but I do think we should recognize that there is "mystery" to it IMO.
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) Seriously, I'm just curious. I can see the argument on both sides, I just want to know where you are coming from with all of the other items you have brought up.
