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So, the kinsman redeemer paid whomever his relative was in bondage to. If you're going to follow that line of thought, the price the Redeemer paid wasn't to the Father as the penal substitution theory of atonement embraced by some Christians proposes. Rather, it was "paid" to fear, conndemnation, and corruption since that is what the bible says mankind is in bondage to.
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Originally Posted by Heartsong
Yes, I've heard sermons to the effect that it was the devil we were sold into slavery to and that he is the one who demanded blood. I think this holds true to the fact that Christ's blood speaks of 'better things' than that of Abel's according to the book of Hebrews. There are scriptures that plainly state that God never wanted any blood sacrifices. If that is true, then obviously it was someone other than God demanding blood. They called for Jesus to be crucified according to the gospel stories and that a criminal "Barabbas" be let go.
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Originally Posted by nateswift
Focus on "salvation" as bringing us to a life lived in love with God and man, a "life more abundant," and you will see that the price paid was to destroy the instrument of bondage: the Law of sin and death, to discredit it as the basis for judgement of man.
Substitution or Participation?
The death, burial, and resurrection were truly an act of love, mercy and grace within the envelope of forgiveness, overturning the hypocritical verdict of an illegal system of justice that professes to be judge, jury, and executioner; sentencing to death the innocent. And, at the same time proclaiming the righteousness of him who died, as their sacrifice in a pretense of having his virtues imputed to themselves, according to the letter of their own understanding.
2 John 1:6
And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands.
As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
Yes, I've heard sermons to the effect that it was the devil we were sold into slavery to and that he is the one who demanded blood. I think this holds true to the fact that Christ's blood speaks of 'better things' than that of Abel's according to the book of Hebrews. There are scriptures that plainly state that God never wanted any blood sacrifices. If that is true, then obviously it was someone other than God demanding blood. They called for Jesus to be crucified according to the gospel stories and that a criminal "Barabbas" be let go.
Maybe you've misunderstood that Hosea 6 passage. These verses seem to indicate it was God's plan all along.
Isaiah 53
10 But the Lord was pleased
To crush Him, putting Him to grief;
If He would render Himself as a guilt offering.
Matt. 20
28 "The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”
Let's see. First you make this statement, ''and here people are saying He did it for you'', and this, ''He didn't and cannot do it for you.'' The implication being that we must save ourselves which you came right out and said on another thread. But then you post this statement, 'The Lord says ; "There is no just and saving God but me. There is no savior but me." '
If God is the only Savior, and He is, then we can do nothing to save ourselves. The work of salvation was accomplished by Jesus on the Cross. Our redemption from the slave market of sin is the result of Christ paying the penalty for our sins. Therefore, salvation is through faith alone in Christ alone. At the moment of faith in Christ God imputes His perfect righteousness to the one has believed. God cannot accept our righteousness.
Jesus said, "follow me". That includes to the cross and through the cross.
The death, burial, and resurrection were truly an act of love, mercy and grace within the envelope of forgiveness, overturning the hypocritical verdict of an illegal system of justice that professes to be judge, jury, and executioner; sentencing to death the innocent. And, at the same time proclaiming the righteousness of him who died, as their sacrifice in a pretense of having his virtues imputed to themselves, according to the letter of their own understanding.
2 John 1:6
And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands.
As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
Well said. And those who do not walk in love are made manifest by their desire not to participate in the fellowship of his sufferings and instead using the name of Jesus as an amulet to say, no matter what I do or whether I love others, I'm covered by the blood of Christ. I think this is a misunderstanding of the blood of Christ which speaks better things than that of Abel. Will we follow him - or will we cry out for condemnation of others? The answer to that for each person tells us all we need to know.
Jesus said, "follow me". That includes to the cross and through the cross.
Following Christ is necessary to advance to spiritual maturity. Not to be eternally saved. A person is saved the moment he places his faith in Christ. Following Christ should be the result of eternal salvation but it is never the cause of eternal salvation. The topic of this thread is not about following Christ which is a different subject. It is about, and only about the fact that Jesus Christ is the kinsman redeemer.
Well said. And those who do not walk in love are made manifest by their desire not to participate in the fellowship of his sufferings and instead using the name of Jesus as an amulet to say, no matter what I do or whether I love others, I'm covered by the blood of Christ. I think this is a misunderstanding of the blood of Christ which speaks better things than that of Abel. Will we follow him - or will we cry out for condemnation of others? The answer to that for each person tells us all we need to know.
I think everyone here understands the difference between a head faith and a heart faith. That's not the topic.
It is about, and only about the fact that Jesus Christ is the kinsman redeemer.
Ad the point being made is the question of "being redeemed from what?" The point about walking in love is that the redemption is from strictures of law and death and the futility of a "life after the flesh." Salvation from punishment is only a sort of by-product of salvation from bondage to sin.
Here are more verses which speak of our redemption which was paid for with the blood of Christ. Eternal salvation is free for us because Jesus picked up the tab and paid the price.
1 Cor. 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20]For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
Acts 20:28 "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
1 Cor. 7:23You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men.
2 Peter 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.
The following is an addendum to the above which was posted in Post #14.
In Romans 7:14 Paul states the following - For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage(pepranenos; Perfect tense indicating past action - 'having been sold') to (hupo; under [the authority of]) sin.
The basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect. In other words, the progress of the action has reached its culmination and the finished results are now in existence. Unlike the English perfect, which indicates a completed past action, the Greek perfect tense indicates the continuation and present state of a completed past action. Greek Verbs (Shorter Definitions)
Paul's statement of 'having been sold into bondage to sin'; that is, 'under the authority of sin' describes the status of the unregenerate person. We are all born under the authority of the indwelling old sin nature. The sin nature still resides in the believer with the result that the indwelling sin nature continues to seek to exert its control over the believer.
Because we are all born with a sin nature we are born under the authority of the sin nature with the result that we commit acts of personal sin. Those personal sins were never imputed to us for judgment. We were condemned instead on the basis of Adam's original sin. Our personal sins were imputed to Jesus on the Cross where He paid for them. He redeemed us. He purchased us from the slavemarket or marketplace of sin.
1 Peter 1:18 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, 19] but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ. 20] For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you.
This redemption, this payment for sin was planned in eternity past. And at the right time in human history - the time of God's choosing, God became man. The incarnation of Jesus Christ was for our sake; for our redemption.
Romans 5:6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7] For one will hardly die for (huper; 'for the sake of', 'on behalf of', [as a substitute for]) a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8] But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for (huper; 'for the sake of', 'on behalf of', [as a substitute for]) us.
And there you have it. At the right time in history the incarnation of Jesus Christ occurred for our sake. Jesus came into the world primarily to go to the Cross and die a substitutionary death for our redemption.
Acts 2:23 this Man (Jesus), delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.
Ad the point being made is the question of "being redeemed from what?" The point about walking in love is that the redemption is from strictures of law and death and the futility of a "life after the flesh." Salvation from punishment is only a sort of by-product of salvation from bondage to sin.
Redemption refers to the saving and finished work of Christ on the Cross by which He purchased our freedom from slavery to sin. This was accomplished by Jesus bearing our sins in His body on the cross where He paid the penalty for those sins. The penalty for sin being spiritual death which is separation from God. The person who dies without believing on Christ for eternal life will be eternally separated from God in the lake of fire. He will live forever outside of any relationship with God.
Excerpt:
Therefore, the results of redemption are:
A. Deliverance from the curse of the Law (Gal.3:13; 4:46).
B. Total forgiveness of sins (Isa.44:22; Eph.1:7; Col.1:14; Heb.9:15).
C. Basis for justification (Rom.3:24).
D. Basis for sanctification (Eph.5:25-27).
E. Basis for eternal inheritance (Heb.9:15).
F. Basis for strategic victory of Christ in the Angelic Conflict (Col.2:14,15; Heb.2:14,15).
G. Basis for redemption of the body in resurrection (Eph.1:15).
H. Related to mediatorship of Christ (1Tim.1:5,6).
I. Basis of our sonship. DOCTRINE OF REDEMPTION
Redemption, the work of Christ on the Cross is the basis for justification. Justification takes place at the moment of salvation though faith alone in Christ alone.
Very good discussion. Thanks, Mike, for bringing it up.
Jesus is the antitype for ALL the sacrifices in the law. And yes, He is our kinsman redeemer. I absolutely love the book of Ruth which sets forth the type in such a beautiful fashion.
What do you do with Jubilee? God did not permit ANYONE to stay in servitude forever or to have his property be forever lost. After the prescribed time, EVERYONE went out free, there were NO requirements to be performed by the bonded servant. One could argue that if the servant loved his master he could stay and have his ear bored with the awl and live as his servant the rest of his life. Yet if we are to believe scripture which says that EVERY KNEE will bow and confess Christ as Lord, then there will be no one who remains in bondage to SIN in God's plan of the ages. When He heals and opens blind eyes and deaf ears, all will know the truth and want only HIM.
All the blessings for obedience were related to life in THIS sphere and the curses for not obeying the law were related to life in THIS sphere. All those blessings or curses ended at death. The consequence of sin was death. God did NOT tell Adam that there would be torment without end, and all the other terrible pictures men conjure up to terrify rebellious children. He said death. But Jesus came so that we would be resurrected out of death into His life.
He is the antitype of the sacrifices that separate us from God in the NOW and He is our hope of resurrected life.
Jesus was/is the Father's remedy from the beginning. Not to save a few but the whole race. Each in His own order. I trust in Him to run the universe and bring HIS plan to fruition.
God is great and greatly to be praised. To Him be the glory, Amen.
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