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Old 04-18-2013, 03:43 PM
 
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The Bible says those that are in Christ are new creatures in which old ways pass away and all things become new.

My experience as I've progressed in my walk with the Lord is that I do not want to sin. I do sin, and sometimes the old man comes back to resurface his ugly head but I certainly can not rest. when I'm tempted, I certainly have a fear that I did not use to have although I have succumbed to temptations at times. When I've failed though, God hadn't forsaken me. I still feel Him working in my life.

The only joy is living for Christ obeying Him. When I go outside this will of God their is no peace.

I believe this new nature helps eliminate the confusion between free will and predestination as God has put in my heart both the will and the capability through Faith in Him to obey Him. So my will aligns more with God's will although not always perfect as the old man is still there.

I've been studying a lot on "reformed theology". The doctrine is ultimately one must preservere to the end being conformed to the image of Christ to truly be saved. That the idea of a fruitless Christian is impossible in their finality (not initially in growth) Thus the free gift is only given any the end.

This is a very important concept to understand to establish both correct doctrine as well as understand evangelism. The "good news" doesn't sound as good when one must enter the "rest" which is analagous to the children of Israel in the OT in which all but Kaleb, Joshua, and those under 20 years of age could enter.

When one realizes Moses and Aaron did not enter the promise land, it should make all of us gasp if this theology is true. Of course we know Moses is saved as he made an appearance at the transfiguration. So to conclude he was not saved is not a good conclusion. What about the thief on the cross? Was God demonstrating His unmerited grace to mankind or was the man saved an exception? I think it's a clear demonstration of God's unmerited Grace demonstrating His love toward us. A demonstration to keep us from distorting His Grace from including human merit and pride.

The study continues, but I have to believe that all that are born again will respond because of their new nature. I think it's very important for Christians to just rest in Christ believing the promises of God in that He will save trusting on the character of God.

When one KNOWS they are saved in God's hands kept by His power by trusting His works truly that love of God can be poured out others while love not fear is fruit.
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:58 PM
 
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Resisting sin is the key to the fear of God which is correct doctrines can be established for gifts of Holy Spirit to come .....As the Lord sees that His believers are resisting sin He can bring Gifts so His Spirit to make a dwelling place with these believers .....See believers who do not resist sin can attract the adversary spirit which can alienate Jesus Spirit .. So resisting sin is a bonus ......
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,633 posts, read 7,096,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81 View Post

I've been studying a lot on "reformed theology".

The study continues, but I have to believe that all that are born again will respond because of their new nature. I think it's very important for Christians to just rest in Christ believing the promises of God in that He will save trusting on the character of God.

When one KNOWS they are saved in God's hands kept by His power by trusting His works truly that love of God can be poured out others while love not fear is fruit.
In general, theology is something that in the past clergy with too much time on their hands engaged in. It makes for an interesting hobby, but don't put too much stock in it. You seem to be on the right track:

Titus 2
"11For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good."

Between that and Galations 5: "22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other."
you are pretty well set; the rest is application.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Florida -
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When one is truly ''saved' and reborn in the indwelling Holy Spirit, they have "eternal" life and are new creatures in Christ (2 Cor 5:17). However, we still live in a fallen world and have the 'habitual sin memory' of our old 'flesh man.' (I've often seen this demonstrated in 'saved' addicts who have traditionally responded to a variety of pressures in life, by resorting to drugs/alcohol). When the pressures recur in their lives, their 'habitual sin memory' strongly tempts them to return to their old ways.

This is the nature of 'sin' and the deception of the enemy who places temptation in the path of believers. While God's Spirit is at work in believers "transforming them by the renewing of their minds" ... believers must still "submit to God and resist Satan" 'lest they fall into sin. After he was saved/reborn, Paul dealt with this in Romans and Galatians:

Rom 7:23-27 - 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Gal 5:16-18 - 16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,633 posts, read 7,096,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post

Gal 5:16-18 - 16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Was thinking about this not long ago. It is really important that the believer have very positive activities, purposeful actions in order to have something good to contrast to the "desires of the flesh."
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Old 04-19-2013, 07:16 PM
 
6,824 posts, read 4,912,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
When one is truly ''saved' and reborn in the indwelling Holy Spirit, they have "eternal" life and are new creatures in Christ (2 Cor 5:17). However, we still live in a fallen world and have the 'habitual sin memory' of our old 'flesh man.' (I've often seen this demonstrated in 'saved' addicts who have traditionally responded to a variety of pressures in life, by resorting to drugs/alcohol). When the pressures recur in their lives, their 'habitual sin memory' strongly tempts them to return to their old ways.

This is the nature of 'sin' and the deception of the enemy who places temptation in the path of believers. While God's Spirit is at work in believers "transforming them by the renewing of their minds" ... believers must still "submit to God and resist Satan" 'lest they fall into sin. After he was saved/reborn, Paul dealt with this in Romans and Galatians:

Rom 7:23-27 - 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Gal 5:16-18 - 16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
I always appreciate your posts. There's a couple others on here that I really respect their thoughts as well. So thanks for posting.

I've been having quite a time studying all this. There are good points from that perspective - that one must be faith full to the end (not necessarily "Calvanism/Arminianism per say but there is obviously components of each). They make good points in that all justified according to the book of Romans 8 are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus.

So the ultimate theological question has been, what about those that receive Christ but do not bear fruit?

I do understand the concern. God certainly is looking for fruit, and passages pointing to fruitlessness don't give someone a good feeling regarding the fate of these. Regardless of which, we certainly DON'T want to be fruitless. I can at least come to this conclusion. I do see the concern of a vainly puffed up spiritual mind with espousing the reformed theological doctrine. We certainly must remember always that we are only not getting what we deserves only by God's Mercy and Grace.

This is an extremely important concept to understand. I certainly don't want to give someone a false assurance of their position, but I also want to represent God's Grace accurately in bringing the lost to Christ.

The one area I'll have to say that they are lacking and do not have a good answer for John you hit right on the head. It is the seal of God. An Arminian takes the position that the seal is can be broken through apostasy and the Calvanist I guess just ignores this concept completely as it IS God's assurance to US that we are now His and blood bought. The whole point of the seal is that we are to know God has purchased us and we aren't our own anymore.

I can read a lot of books, but nothing replaces Christian experience in talking about those that may have truly been born again, fallen away, and restored etc. As it stands now, I do not believe I can lose my Salvation as I do know God has sealed me with His Holy Spirit, and I know I did absolutely nothing but fear Him and believe Him repenting toward Him in Christ.

So therefore I must just rest in this position. By KNOWING I'm saved only by Christ I can truly have peace (not lurking fear concerned it's not finished) because of my Faith in Christ (trusting to be presented by His merit to the Father) thus I can truly rejoice in my trials, rejoicing entirely in God (as opposed to fearful apprehension) resting in Him.

I think one must KNOW they are saved to truly live a dynamic Christian life. Ironically I think when one is fearful because they don't think they are being faith full enough they are expressing lack of faith in God that He'd do what he said he would do. But salvation is ultimately about believing God would do as He promised. Resting in the character of God.

Pretty wild. Running in circles.

Last edited by Mikelee81; 04-19-2013 at 07:29 PM..
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