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Old 04-19-2013, 12:48 PM
 
367 posts, read 281,189 times
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Mystic and others, I am sorry I did not get around to starting this thread yesterday. I was quite busy. I usually do not have time to read post completely and often skip lengthy ones altogether. So Maybe I have missed some of this. I have noticed that you do not, as I understand it, believe the God we read about who spoke to Moses and lead the People of Israel and who caused the flood is not the god that the "Jesus" you accept is from/of/is (however you choose to view him). Is that an accurate understanding of your faith?

Also you seem to believe that most if not all of the Old Testament that deals with God and His commands and judgments are fictitious works of man or at least his misunderstanding of what the real god you believe in intended. Is this right or not?

Also you view the New Testament as partially correct when the text is in line with your view or what you feel the "christ in you" is telling you, of what your "Jesus" came to teach and reveal about your god and other parts that you do on feel this "christ in you" confirms are man's ignorance and confusion. Is this right or not?

I often feel like when I am trying to discuss something with you that I give you it's like we are playing a sporting game and I try to show you the rules of the football game I am playing and you come back with the rules to golf you are playing.

PS: I may be away at times and not respond as quickly as normal. Due to the nature of my work this is a very busy time for me at the moment.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:10 PM
 
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Um...I've met quite a few people in the online world who genuinely don't believe that the God of the Old Testament is the same as the God of the new. They often say that Yahweh is not the real God but is of evil, etc etc.

I can't see the contradiction and I feel it so much better to really trust my instincts and go with what feels right. I've met far too many people who have tried to make themselves shepherds, people from all faiths and beliefs and even of no beliefs, when they're equally sheep and I prefer to rather trust in God and in His counsel and guidance because He really does speak to all of us.

To me, the God of the Old Testament IS the same God Jesus spoke of and taught about. I most definitely see the connection and the presence of God in the words. I feel this beyond a doubt at this point.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:14 PM
 
58 posts, read 47,365 times
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God is the same; Yesterday - Today & Forever. That settles it for me!

Malachi 3:6
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
7,931 posts, read 8,506,993 times
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The same God. But He acts differently towards people under the new covenant.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:27 PM
 
367 posts, read 281,189 times
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I guess I should have made it a bit clearer as to the purpose of this thread. The reason I started this thread was for MysticPhD, Pcamps and others who hold the same beliefs to discuss exactly what those beliefs are in regards to God. I am finding that most of the threads on the Christianity sub-forum end up over how their beliefs differ from some of us. Since it seems to be the sole purpose of them being here and it ends up being the topic of almost every single thread they comment on I thought it would be a good idea for the rest of us to come to an understanding of where they are coming from.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:29 PM
 
1,765 posts, read 2,324,568 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisWayne View Post
I guess I should have made it a bit clearer as to the purpose of this thread. The reason I started this thread was for MysticPhD, Pcamps and others who hold the same beliefs to discuss exactly what those beliefs are in regards to God. I am finding that most of the threads on the Christianity sub-forum end up over how their beliefs differ from some of us. Since it seems to be the sole purpose of them being here and it ends up being the topic of almost every single thread they comment on I thought it would be a good idea for the rest of us to come to an understanding of where they are coming from.
Oh okay, I understand.

Well, hope it turns out to be a respectful discussion.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:47 PM
 
37,587 posts, read 25,288,180 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisWayne View Post
Mystic and others, I am sorry I did not get around to starting this thread yesterday. I was quite busy. I usually do not have time to read post completely and often skip lengthy ones altogether. So Maybe I have missed some of this. I have noticed that you do not, as I understand it, believe the God we read about who spoke to Moses and lead the People of Israel and who caused the flood is not the god that the "Jesus" you accept is from/of/is (however you choose to view him). Is that an accurate understanding of your faith?
Not really, Dennis. It is NOT God that is in question . . . there IS only one. It is the ignorant and savage beliefs ABOUT Him that are understandably misguided. That is WHY Christ came. He redeemed God's promise in prophesy to send a Messiah to teach righteousness and correct the misunderstanding of God (lift the veil of ignorance over the OT). Jesus revealed our Father unambiguously through His teachings, life and most especially His horrendous scourging and crucifixion. . . followed by His rebirth as Spirit (resurrection). There should have been no confusion, His love was unconditional even forgiving His torturers and murderers. He smote no one. But the ancient ignorance about a vengeful, jealous, and all too human parody of God that needed to be appeased by blood sacrifices . . . was too strongly indoctrinated in our savage ancestors to be over-written very easily. They twisted the interpretation to conform to their savage beliefs about God's motivations . . . and the churches for their own purposes have perpetuated that ancient ignorance for over 2000+ years.
Quote:
Also you seem to believe that most if not all of the Old Testament that deals with God and His commands and judgments are fictitious works of man or at least his misunderstanding of what the real god you believe in intended. Is this right or not?
Definitely misunderstandings . . . much as a very young child's interpretations of a parent's motives and actions would be relative to their actual motives and actions. A species childhood is no less a unique period in time than our individual childhoods. This is difficult to see because we all mature and think we are all the same as adults. But the generational and cultural differences can be enormous. My favorite example of the kinds of differences is illustrated by watching the SERIOUS and DRAMATIC silent movies that were responded to very seriously by the adults of that generation. What is your reaction to them? It is unlikely to be serious and dramatic . . . and this only mere decades ago. Imagine what perceptual and motivational differences there would be 2000 - 4000 + years ago in a vastly different culture and circumstances.
Quote:
Also you view the New Testament as partially correct when the text is in line with your view or what you feel the "christ in you" is telling you, of what your "Jesus" came to teach and reveal about your god and other parts that you do on feel this "christ in you" confirms are man's ignorance and confusion. Is this right or not?
Christ and His attitude is the exemplar for His Father. Anything NOT consistent or compatible with Christ is NOT of God . . . but is of man's ignorance and superstition. The sermon on the mount, 1 Cor 13, etc. unambiguously described Christ's motivations and attitude . . . God IS love. God has "written in our hearts" the truth He wants us to know. Christ abides with us as the Living Word of God in our consciousness as the Comforter (Holy Spirit) to guide us to the truth. IF we are SINCERE in seeking the truth in "love of God and each other" . . . we will find it as we read scripture and ask (WWJT). We get into trouble when we use the "precepts and doctrines of men" to override what is in our heart using excuses and rationalizations for why anything is NOT compatible with God as love and what we know in our heart is right or wrong (Good or Evil).
Quote:
I often feel like when I am trying to discuss something with you that I give you it's like we are playing a sporting game and I try to show you the rules of the football game I am playing and you come back with the rules to golf you are playing.
That is the problem . . . we are NOT pets in obedience training learning the rules of the obedience ring. We are children in the process of spiritually maturing into adults to be reborn as Spirit and join Jesus and our Father in the next stage of life.

Last edited by MysticPhD; 04-19-2013 at 02:02 PM..
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:32 PM
 
1,765 posts, read 2,324,568 times
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To be honest, i never really know where people get what they got and it can dishearten me when certain traits and behaviors are attributed to all Christians. It creates a major barrier that very often I had nothing to do with, it just so happens that I carry the label "Christian" in this life. I get very confused because my experience has at many times been very different from what a lot of others have experienced. It's hard to sift through all that b.s., particularly online when people already come on here with some level of preconceived notions, particularly of religions, and then quickly attribute it to you. It happens a lot here.

In the past I use to tell people that if you want to know more about the Bible, read it for yourself and trust your heart. That's what I do and for me God speaks to my heart and my understanding of the words and even how it applies to my own life, grows. But from having friends who have tried to do so and who have wound up deeply confused and unfamiliar with the history, I do understand the importance of having a human teacher. Church, to me, can be a school. It's a start and so having that experience with my friends who wanted to know more and knowing that even if I were to answer all their questions, I could very well become as much a barrier to their spiritual growth as a person who dishes out religious condemnation, I tend to hold back my words. But they're growing and I do understand that we all have to start somewhere. So I generally refrain from judgement. I truly believe that if you're seeking, you'll find what you're looking for. You just have to look. So for people who are devoutly religious and even somewhat indoctrinated, I am sympathetic in that regards. But I also know the dangers of group think and so I'm leery of that level of thinking. But i can't impose that observation on others. At some point they have to wake up and see it for themselves. It really is a personal journey.

Hopefully that isn't taken wrong.
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:37 PM
 
17,813 posts, read 8,909,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
The same God. But He acts differently towards people under the new covenant.
God is NOT a killer or murderer, neither in the Old Testament, nor in the New Testament.
His ways are not like that of man’s; having a debased mind to do the things, they ought not to do
... through the lusts of their own heart and flesh.


Last edited by Jerwade; 04-19-2013 at 02:45 PM..
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:37 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,276 posts, read 20,017,000 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisWayne View Post
Mystic and others, I am sorry I did not get around to starting this thread yesterday. I was quite busy. I usually do not have time to read post completely and often skip lengthy ones altogether. So Maybe I have missed some of this. I have noticed that you do not, as I understand it, believe the God we read about who spoke to Moses and lead the People of Israel and who caused the flood is not the god that the "Jesus" you accept is from/of/is (however you choose to view him). Is that an accurate understanding of your faith?

Also you seem to believe that most if not all of the Old Testament that deals with God and His commands and judgments are fictitious works of man or at least his misunderstanding of what the real god you believe in intended. Is this right or not?

Also you view the New Testament as partially correct when the text is in line with your view or what you feel the "christ in you" is telling you, of what your "Jesus" came to teach and reveal about your god and other parts that you do on feel this "christ in you" confirms are man's ignorance and confusion. Is this right or not?

I often feel like when I am trying to discuss something with you that I give you it's like we are playing a sporting game and I try to show you the rules of the football game I am playing and you come back with the rules to golf you are playing.

PS: I may be away at times and not respond as quickly as normal. Due to the nature of my work this is a very busy time for me at the moment.
Do you believe Jesus Christ is God ?
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