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Old 11-01-2007, 08:34 PM
AT9
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
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Oopps...forgot to say, I would encourage you to talk to someone who is very well educated in these deep theological issues, my explanations (or probably most people here) will not be able to answer these tough questions to your satisfaction......but we'll still try
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Old 11-01-2007, 08:35 PM
 
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Hey Thanks alot...I posted this same thread in the general phy/rel. site...I do want to come to terms with this stuff so much and will follow my heart/head and this link
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Old 11-01-2007, 09:02 PM
 
Location: NC
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You're welcome. God bless you.
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Old 11-01-2007, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Texas
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LOL! I could say some things, but like AT9 said, I'm not sure I have the spiritual depth/wisdom to help you, but I am inclined to recommend a book for you by Dr. Greg Boyd called Letters From a Skeptic. In fact, if you like I'll even send you a copy if you will send me a direct message with an address to mail it to.
Blessings-
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Old 11-01-2007, 09:26 PM
 
174 posts, read 450,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpioboy33 View Post
Hi Guys,
I'm new and I've joined with the goal of finding an answer to these two very pressing questions.
OK so apparently Jesus always existed..john one--word was god and word was with God....Anyway did that mean God always new we were going to sin and that Jesus was always going to have to die for our sins..if so that the whole adam and eve thing was already planned out no? Kind of a rigged test?
Jesus has always existed because He is part of the triune God, just as the Holy Spirit has always existed. They all three embody the Holy Trinity. Three parts, distinct in nature and operation, yet one God in substance with the Father being the head.

We are told we are made in the likeness of God. We are classified as being of mind, body and soul.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpioboy33 View Post
OK Second this is the real toughie for me. God create Satan the arch angel (whatever his Angel name was) anyway..Satan got envious and wanted to rule earth and he was jealous of Gods Power....If God created Satan than did he create Satan with ingrained Sin cause you either create something perfect or imperfect. There is no free choice element to this question because if you create something perfect it can't fail impossible...100% doesn't degrade so Satan would have the character flaw that would cause him to become jealous..Also he couldn't choose to be jealous cause jealousy shouldn't have existed if you follow me.....God had created everthing and everything should have been perfect....
I relize I'm going to get the "Free Choice" answers but trust me that doesn't make sense because like I said God would have to have created that flaw...


anyway please help if you can...thanks and hi I'm Bill
The Lord purposed in His creation to express His love. Being divine in nature and benevolent in His love, He is worthy of His created giving back to Him their love. Placing Him second is a sin. In the Scriptures, sin is likened to yeast, a little soon grows throughout, filling the whole. Placing God second enables one to take from God what is His. God takes second place. Sin is therefore in direct opposition to God. He is to direct his creation to bring Him the Glory He rightfully deserves, to fulfill His intention of having His creation moving in accord with His will and shower them with his love and ultimate benevolence.

Now, to your question, is God the originator of sin if He created everything?

In order to receive true love, God knew He must give us free will. In order for free will to exist, its polar opposite must exist. For us to will to obey, we must be able to disobey. For us to love, we must be able to hate.

God didn't create sin. Indeed, sin didn't exist until lucifer sinned in his pride. But, from the time of the creation of His creatures, the potential did exist.

Just as light defines day and darkness night, free will is defined by opposites.

Would you wish for a mate who loved you of their own free will, or would you choose someone who is programmed to love you? Which is more valuable to you?

Why did he create Adam and Eve, knowing that satan had plans to corrupt His creation? Well, He has proved satan, that great deceiver, wrong. The angels were bathed in the light and righteousness of the Lord when they followed satan to their doom. We exist on a plane which is removed of His direct light. We are wholly lacking the direct knowledge of His righteousness. Yet, some of us choose to follow the leading of His Holy Spirit and obey. This brings Him ultimate Glory and acts as an everlasting witness to the superiority of His righteousness.

We mustn't forget how horribly offensive sin is to God. It is by His grace alone that we are spared and he is tolerant of this unrighteousness. He has deemed us worthy, not only of being spared, but of the sacrifice of His Son on the cross as a means for justification.

An important point is that having been tried and found worthy, we will be the crown of His creation. No angel has chosen God without direct knowledge of His Righteousness. In the end, He will have taken lucifer's original sin and the subsequent contamination of His creation, and turned it around into His greatest glory.
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Old 11-01-2007, 09:33 PM
 
13 posts, read 22,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaykay View Post
LOL! I could say some things, but like AT9 said, I'm not sure I have the spiritual depth/wisdom to help you, but I am inclined to recommend a book for you by Dr. Greg Boyd called Letters From a Skeptic. In fact, if you like I'll even send you a copy if you will send me a direct message with an address to mail it to.
Blessings-
I did email it to you...and thank you so much for your generosity and desire to help....I think maybe I've been led to this place...well that sounds silly but whatever I had the notion to use this forum to find answers
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Old 11-01-2007, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,250,588 times
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I started a thread in regards to your second question a while back. Let me see if I can't find it. It turned out to be a pretty long thread so there's a lot to it but it may answer your question.

Edit: Ok here is the link to the thread.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/relig...eate-evil.html
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Old 11-01-2007, 09:43 PM
 
13 posts, read 22,859 times
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why doesn't God seek to save even Lucifer...honestly I hope I'm not coming off trite..these are real questions in my heart
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Old 11-01-2007, 09:46 PM
 
13 posts, read 22,859 times
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thanks man thats alot of good reading in this thread....again thank you!
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Old 11-01-2007, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Back home to Northern CA
157 posts, read 576,343 times
Reputation: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpioboy33 View Post
Hi Guys,
I'm new and I've joined with the goal of finding an answer to these two very pressing questions.
OK so apparently Jesus always existed..john one--word was god and word was with God....Anyway did that mean God always new we were going to sin and that Jesus was always going to have to die for our sins..if so that the whole adam and eve thing was already planned out no? Kind of a rigged test?

OK Second this is the real toughie for me. God create Satan the arch angel (whatever his Angel name was) anyway..Satan got envious and wanted to rule earth and he was jealous of Gods Power....If God created Satan than did he create Satan with ingrained Sin cause you either create something perfect or imperfect. There is no free choice element to this question because if you create something perfect it can't fail impossible...100% doesn't degrade so Satan would have the character flaw that would cause him to become jealous..Also he couldn't choose to be jealous cause jealousy shouldn't have existed if you follow me.....God had created everthing and everything should have been perfect....
I relize I'm going to get the "Free Choice" answers but trust me that doesn't make sense because like I said God would have to have created that flaw...

anyway please help if you can...thanks and hi I'm Bill

Hi Bill,
Welcome! You're right, these are very pressing questions. In Ezekiel 28:14 God is referring to Lucifer as a seal of perfection so according to the Bible he was created perfect but pride sprung up in his heart as he coveted God's position. I believe God is love and love takes great risks. If any of God's creation were created without the free will to choose to worship God or turn their backs then we may as well just be mechanical people. I think there's a thread on this forum "Can Love be Commanded?" might be helpful to you if you haven't read through it yet because it's sort of along this same line. I don't know if this makes any sense to you or not and I know you didn't want the "free choice" answers...I don't believe God created that flaw, but rather Satan just made the wrong choice. The Bible makes reference to the mystery of iniquity (sin) as well as the mystery of godliness. There's just some things we can never fully understand.

God Bless
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