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Old 11-01-2007, 07:10 PM
 
13 posts, read 15,578 times
Reputation: 17
Default The Reason I Am Kept From Fully Becoming A Participating Christian---help If You Can

Hi Guys,
I'm new and I've joined with the goal of finding an answer to these two very pressing questions.
OK so apparently Jesus always existed..john one--word was god and word was with God....Anyway did that mean God always new we were going to sin and that Jesus was always going to have to die for our sins..if so that the whole adam and eve thing was already planned out no? Kind of a rigged test?

OK Second this is the real toughie for me. God create Satan the arch angel (whatever his Angel name was) anyway..Satan got envious and wanted to rule earth and he was jealous of Gods Power....If God created Satan than did he create Satan with ingrained Sin cause you either create something perfect or imperfect. There is no free choice element to this question because if you create something perfect it can't fail impossible...100% doesn't degrade so Satan would have the character flaw that would cause him to become jealous..Also he couldn't choose to be jealous cause jealousy shouldn't have existed if you follow me.....God had created everthing and everything should have been perfect....
I relize I'm going to get the "Free Choice" answers but trust me that doesn't make sense because like I said God would have to have created that flaw...


anyway please help if you can...thanks and hi I'm Bill
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Old 11-01-2007, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 4,099,510 times
Reputation: 941
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpioboy33 View Post
Hi Guys,
I'm new and I've joined with the goal of finding an answer to these two very pressing questions.
OK so apparently Jesus always existed..john one--word was god and word was with God....Anyway did that mean God always new we were going to sin and that Jesus was always going to have to die for our sins..if so that the whole adam and eve thing was already planned out no? Kind of a rigged test?

OK Second this is the real toughie for me. God create Satan the arch angel (whatever his Angel name was) anyway..Satan got envious and wanted to rule earth and he was jealous of Gods Power....If God created Satan than did he create Satan with ingrained Sin cause you either create something perfect or imperfect. There is no free choice element to this question because if you create something perfect it can't fail impossible...100% doesn't degrade so Satan would have the character flaw that would cause him to become jealous..Also he couldn't choose to be jealous cause jealousy shouldn't have existed if you follow me.....God had created everthing and everything should have been perfect....
I relize I'm going to get the "Free Choice" answers but trust me that doesn't make sense because like I said God would have to have created that flaw...


anyway please help if you can...thanks and hi I'm Bill
There was a previous thread that debated the whole created "perfect" thing.
As a Christian, I believe when God looked at creation and said it was "good", it did not mean "perfect".
For example, if think a rose is perfect in form and function. But it is subject to decay. Perfection does not necessarily presume it's longevity.
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Old 11-01-2007, 07:51 PM
 
13 posts, read 15,578 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
There was a previous thread that debated the whole created "perfect" thing.
As a Christian, I believe when God looked at creation and said it was "good", it did not mean "perfect".
For example, if think a rose is perfect in form and function. But it is subject to decay. Perfection does not necessarily presume it's longevity.
First of all thanks for replying!

OK I understand what you're saying but let's call what satan or adam had moral decay....God created them so the moral decay must have been ingrained in them no? or where would it come from?
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Old 11-01-2007, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 4,099,510 times
Reputation: 941
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpioboy33 View Post
First of all thanks for replying!

OK I understand what you're saying but let's call what satan or adam had moral decay....God created them so the moral decay must have been ingrained in them no? or where would it come from?
Perhaps failure was an option.
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Old 11-01-2007, 08:00 PM
 
13 posts, read 15,578 times
Reputation: 17
would that point to a flaw in the design and there for be the cause for millions and millons around the world being destined to hell? Kinda like being a car manufactorer and your car tends to blow up at 100000 kilometres...wouldn't that be the responsible of the manufacturer.?
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Old 11-01-2007, 08:02 PM
 
Location: NC
10,943 posts, read 8,523,663 times
Reputation: 1230
Quote:
Hi Guys,
I'm new and I've joined with the goal of finding an answer to these two very pressing questions.
OK so apparently Jesus always existed..john one--word was god and word was with God....Anyway did that mean God always new we were going to sin and that Jesus was always going to have to die for our sins..if so that the whole adam and eve thing was already planned out no? Kind of a rigged test?
Hi Bill, welcome to the site. Many Christians do believe that this was planned out by God for a purpose. There are scriptures which speak of names being written in the book from the foundation of the world and of the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If He sees beginning to end, then it would follow that all was planned. There are many scriptures which speak of God directing the affairs of men.. It is not a popular teaching but it is supported in the scriptures.


Quote:
OK Second this is the real toughie for me. God create Satan the arch angel (whatever his Angel name was) anyway..Satan got envious and wanted to rule earth and he was jealous of Gods Power....If God created Satan than did he create Satan with ingrained Sin cause you either create something perfect or imperfect. There is no free choice element to this question because if you create something perfect it can't fail impossible...100% doesn't degrade so Satan would have the character flaw that would cause him to become jealous..Also he couldn't choose to be jealous cause jealousy shouldn't have existed if you follow me.....God had created everthing and everything should have been perfect....
I relize I'm going to get the "Free Choice" answers but trust me that doesn't make sense because like I said God would have to have created that flaw...

anyway please help if you can...thanks and hi I'm Bill
1 John 8 records that the devil sinned from the beginning and there are references to satan as being the serpent. The serpent was crafty in the garden of Eden and God said that all that He created was “good”. This includes the crafty serpent and so I believe that God intended for it to be that way. The crafty serpent was good for God's purpose. Here are some articles that may be helpful. They speak to the sovereignty of God. I don’t agree with all links posted to the site, but I believe that some of the articles on the first page give a lot of insight into the plan of God as revealed in the scriptures. God bless.


sovereignty

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 11-01-2007 at 08:18 PM.. Reason: clarification
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Old 11-01-2007, 08:16 PM
AT9
 
Location: Pensacola, FL
449 posts, read 570,089 times
Reputation: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpioboy33 View Post
Hi Guys,
I'm new and I've joined with the goal of finding an answer to these two very pressing questions.
OK so apparently Jesus always existed..john one--word was god and word was with God....Anyway did that mean God always new we were going to sin and that Jesus was always going to have to die for our sins..if so that the whole adam and eve thing was already planned out no? Kind of a rigged test?

OK Second this is the real toughie for me. God create Satan the arch angel (whatever his Angel name was) anyway..Satan got envious and wanted to rule earth and he was jealous of Gods Power....If God created Satan than did he create Satan with ingrained Sin cause you either create something perfect or imperfect. There is no free choice element to this question because if you create something perfect it can't fail impossible...100% doesn't degrade so Satan would have the character flaw that would cause him to become jealous..Also he couldn't choose to be jealous cause jealousy shouldn't have existed if you follow me.....God had created everthing and everything should have been perfect....
I relize I'm going to get the "Free Choice" answers but trust me that doesn't make sense because like I said God would have to have created that flaw...


anyway please help if you can...thanks and hi I'm Bill
Hey Bill,

These are questions that I often wonder about as well....The only answer I can think of is that yes, he knew what was going to happen, and he has used this whole process so that we can worship and glorify him. If God had created everything perfect, we would probably not be very appreciative of what God has done for us,and how powerful he is. I don't know, I'm not a theologian, but that's the most reasonable answer I have come up with so far.
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Old 11-01-2007, 08:27 PM
 
13 posts, read 15,578 times
Reputation: 17
thanks man for replying.....
I guess I can't understand based on the bible why so many millions and millions would need to die everlasting death so that we could become appreciative...I so with I could understand this because it does stop me from giving myself over 100%...I can put it to the side because than I would lying to myself and God (whatever exactly that is)
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Old 11-01-2007, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 4,099,510 times
Reputation: 941
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpioboy33 View Post
would that point to a flaw in the design and there for be the cause for millions and millons around the world being destined to hell? Kinda like being a car manufactorer and your car tends to blow up at 100000 kilometres...wouldn't that be the responsible of the manufacturer.?
I can't really get my arms around an analogy that equates us with cars
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Old 11-01-2007, 08:31 PM
AT9
 
Location: Pensacola, FL
449 posts, read 570,089 times
Reputation: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpioboy33 View Post
thanks man for replying.....
I guess I can't understand based on the bible why so many millions and millions would need to die everlasting death so that we could become appreciative...I so with I could understand this because it does stop me from giving myself over 100%...I can put it to the side because than I would lying to myself and God (whatever exactly that is)
No problem.

It seems to us that God is cruel, and that much of what God does is unnecessairy. But if God is God, I think our views and God's on what is necessairy would be quite different, especially since we can't really see "the big picture".
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