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"The trinity got its start in Ancient Babylon with Nimrod - Tammuz - and Semiramis. Semiramis demanded worship for both her husband and her son as well as herself. She claimed that her son, was both the father and the son. Yes, he was "god the father" and "god the son" - The first divine incomprehensible trinity."
--The Two Babylons ; Alexander Hislop; p.51
The link above shows the many many pagan gods with three heads and one body. The same god the Catholic Babylonian system sports in their churches. This is the same church western Christianity has come out of.
Trinities are found in almost all pagan religions down through history. It is yet another foreign concept that trickled into Christianity when Jerusalem was taken over by Rome.
A few posters listed many good verses, many of which Jesus spoke himself, saying that the Father is the only true God.
It's said that the Holy Spirit came upon Mary and begot Jesus. But the scriptures say that the Father is Jesus's father. So who is it? The Holy Spirit or the Father?
The Holy Spirit is a spirit, so says Trinitarianism. But the scriptures teach the Father is a spirit, and is also not a man. Trinitarianism teaches there are two distinct spirits, and then one man, but they are all somehow one God? No, the "holy spirit" is God's ruach. It is not a person. It is his working power, his breath, "wind" (God's breath moved upon the waters, etc). There are only two in Heaven at this time. God the Father, and his son Jesus Christ. The Revelation even shows this with Jesus sitting at the right hand of the Father. The Holy Spirit is never mentioned.
The clearest, easiest explanation is almost always true. There is one spirit: The Father. He is God. His only begotten son was Jesus the Christ, who he has given authority and power too. The easiest metaphor for this I have heard is that of the Sun and it's rays. God is the Sun. Jesus is the sunbeam. You see the sunbeam and say it is the sun, but it is not really the sun. It is a reflection of the sun's power. It's image. Just as the scriptures teach Jesus is the image of God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LunaRabbit
"The trinity got its start in Ancient Babylon with Nimrod - Tammuz - and Semiramis. Semiramis demanded worship for both her husband and her son as well as herself. She claimed that her son, was both the father and the son. Yes, he was "god the father" and "god the son" - The first divine incomprehensible trinity."
--The Two Babylons ; Alexander Hislop; p.51
The link above shows the many many pagan gods with three heads and one body. The same god the Catholic Babylonian system sports in their churches. This is the same church western Christianity has come out of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
and a big for post #30
Doesn't mean that a spiritual perception of "trinity" is not appropriate, but theologians have carried the concept WAAAY too far.
The reconciliation or union of different and opposing principles, practices, or beliefs:
"Christianity is Syncretistic, it did not destroy Paganism - it adopted it!"
"When in Rome ..." (All Religions follow the Roman Catholic Church, contrary to popular opinion).
When Christianity went to Athens, it became a philosophy.
When it went to Rome, it became an organization.
When it went to Europe, it became a culture.
When it came to America, it became a business.
LET THERE BE LIGHT -
I tend to agree with those that point out that perhaps and this is likely to be the only truth that the Bible we have today is a book derived from many religious sources and experiences. What I do tend to decipher is that it presents to us the real cultural struggle or religious if you like between the polytheists and monotheists.
Historically We all know that the monotheism came later and what we had before in abundance was polytheism as far as the question of big religion stood. In its creation of trinity it does appear to me that Christianity may have been a movement aimed at re-establishing the status quo - that of polytheism. Positive Chromaticism is welcome concerning issue.
My other observation relates to Christian concervativism noted here coming from die-hard defenders of monotheistic Christianity which seems angry at any hints of liberalism and hence the mention of "canal minds). I still believe that we should isolate the relationship of fear and knowing of truth if we are part and parcel of any God project for I tend to believe that this is essentially what religion or dogma is all about? What do we gain by covering truth - or switching of light that He himself created in the first place?
With regards to Christianity claim of being a monotheism religion, I have always wondered how that is possibly true given the fact of the existence of trinity - God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit?
Again most Christians though are followers of Jesus Christ to the core. Jesus is an active part and God and Holy Spirit are treated passively. To me this speaks of a preference of one god against all the others.
That aside, in most writings in the Gospels, Jesus failed to assign himself the role of being God or a god and instead of that maintained that he was "The Son of Man ......"; an assertion that is found in nearly all of the Gospel.
His God status proliferated mostly in other latter books after Gospel. Nearly most of the Christians you meet talk mostly about Christ and less of God and that too is not helped by the fact that most books that have been written in modern days strive to tell us more of Jesus and God on periphery. When he resurrected, he talked about ushering in a new helper (not the holy spirit until the day of Pentecost).
Can those that are enlightened elaborate for us so that we can tell where to to truly file Christianity. Monotheism or Polytheism given the fact that we must if we maintain Christianity as it is today emerge with picture of monotheism that does not ignore the other two Gods?
The Trinity is the most commonly accepted model for God in Christianity. The best way to describe it: The Trinity refuses to be true monotheism, while at the same time refusing to be polytheism. It is a delicate balance between the two -- and ultimately never really lands on either side.
There are and have been forms of Christian dogma that were strictly monotheistic. Modalism is an excellent example. Unitarianism is another. Though they are considered damnable heresy by your Trinitarian purists, these theologies definitively land inside of the monotheism camp.
I tend to keep an open mind on things. Personally, I don't understand why it is so crucial that any religion be strict monotheism. Every supposed monotheistic religion has eternal beings of various sorts that are not man and are not God. Angels, Jinn, Sprites, Nymphs, Spirits or whatever you want to call them. I think far too much time and energy has been spent on making belief in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit into monotheism. It is truth. It is reality. Why the obsession with making it conform to a strict monotheism ideal? I think we mangle the reality by trying so hard to slam a square peg into a round hole.
With regards to Christianity claim of being a monotheism religion, I have always wondered how that is possibly true given the fact of the existence of trinity - God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit?
Again most Christians though are followers of Jesus Christ to the core. Jesus is an active part and God and Holy Spirit are treated passively. To me this speaks of a preference of one god against all the others.
That aside, in most writings in the Gospels, Jesus failed to assign himself the role of being God or a god and instead of that maintained that he was "The Son of Man ......"; an assertion that is found in nearly all of the Gospel.
His God status proliferated mostly in other latter books after Gospel. Nearly most of the Christians you meet talk mostly about Christ and less of God and that too is not helped by the fact that most books that have been written in modern days strive to tell us more of Jesus and God on periphery. When he resurrected, he talked about ushering in a new helper (not the holy spirit until the day of Pentecost).
Can those that are enlightened elaborate for us so that we can tell where to to truly file Christianity. Monotheism or Polytheism given the fact that we must if we maintain Christianity as it is today emerge with picture of monotheism that does not ignore the other two Gods?
Trinitarianism is like this. You're not worshipping three Gods.
If you pick a clover, you get three leaves (usually). But the clover is a single plant, not three. So yes, Christianity is monotheism. We worship the whole: God made the universe, Jesus sacrificed himself for us, and Holy Spirit allows miracles to take place. But the whole is God.
Last edited by bulmabriefs144; 07-30-2013 at 02:16 PM..
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for post #30
