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I've never seen a church planted that plays the old hymns. It's always a cool, rocking, experience. This one, in particular, seems high on the experience, and low on correct teaching.
You have already been wrong with reference to so many assumptions about the Movement. Old Hymns are sung occasionally.
Is there something wrong with a "cool rocking experience"?
Are "the old hymns" necessary for salvation? What's the point?
I think your point is this. You don't like it. You don't get it. You don't want to go there. All of that is OK.
The thing is, just because "it's not for you" does not mean that it shouldn't exist, and that it isn't ministering to many people.
Here we go with "correct teaching" I already explained what the essentials are in the Movement. There is "liberty" with reference to the rest.
It is not a doctrinaire church.
I looked at their web site. No statement of doctrine at all. Sounds like an "emergent church" No doctrine just feel good and let everyone believe what they want. If they are not willing to confess their faith, then what good are they. Sounds like just another business/church, duping those who know nothing.
What do you care? Are you thinking of changing churches?
Seems like a lot of scrutiny by you for a church that is hundreds of miles away.
Dewdrop, best that I can figure out, he doesn't want it to exist at all. He seems to be a Calvinist and that for him is the "gold standard" of doctrine. I'm not a Calvinist. Far from it.
The Movement is not Calvinist. The worship experiences there are emotional and free. And the music is contemporary. He doesn't like that either.
I looked at their web site. No statement of doctrine at all. Sounds like an "emergent church" No doctrine just feel good and let everyone believe what they want. If they are not willing to confess their faith, then what good are they. Sounds like just another business/church, duping those who know nothing.
No. It is decidedly not an "emergent church".
The theology is quite conservative really.
Also, it's not a Megachurch. Too few people. And no desire to be a megachurch.
It's also not a "seekers church" - there is one in my area and they restrict the movement of the Holy Spirit in order to not scare off new Christians or seekers.
The Movement also does not demand that people speak in tongues. Some do some do not.
The Movement does not baptize infants, and practice believes baptism by full immersion.
There are two ordinances baptism and Lord's supper. The table is open to all believers.
Last Sunday four babies and young children were dedicated.
On Memorial Day Weekend, all four services were filled.
Not trying to make my first post a controversial one, and I'm striving to remain neutral, but there are a few things I've read in this thread about which I'd like to comment.
Doctrine is, in fact, important. If it weren't, Paul would have had no need to write in 2 Timothy 4:3 [NIV] that "The time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."
The OP indicates the church firmly believes that without vision, people die. Sheena12 clarified the Scripture pertaining to that belief by posting a reference to Proverbs 29:18. Can it be assumed that this church only believes in using the KJV? If not, as Vizio indicated in an earlier post, it needs to be noted that most other versions (which, arguably, may be more accurate) translate Proverbs 29:18 as "Where there is no vision, the people are unrestrained." It could likewise be translated to read "Where there is no word from God, people are uncontrolled." I find it particularly interesting that the church would profess to firmly believe that, yet I came across a YouTube video showing The Movement's youth group engaging in the Harlem Shake:
The Harlem Shake is very controversial, and hardly an example of a proper Christian witness to the world.
(I'm sorry - I don't have enough posts to insert a hyperlink, but you can copy and paste these into your browser.)
Is it an example of the people having vision...a revelation from God...to act in such an unrestrained manner?
Another comment I'd like to make is since the church apparently subscribes to the tenets of diversity and inclusion, may I ask what the church's position is toward controversial social issues, such as abortion, homosexuality/gay marriage, contraceptives, sex outside marriage, etc...?
The Harlem Shake is very controversial, and hardly an example of a proper Christian witness to the world.
The Harlem Shake is a victimless, joyful bit of exuberance.
We live in a world with war and hunger and child abuse. And you're worried about Christians doing the Harlem Shake? Wow. Sorry, but.... wow. Can someone please tell me (outside of that whole uptight, Calvinist, finger shaking thing) we are so afraid of finding JOY in our lives much less in church?
Loud, Sheena. Please sing loudly. Tell them to crank up the amps so the world will know Jesus is being worshiped with gladness of heart!
Last edited by DewDropInn; 05-28-2013 at 05:41 PM..
The problem I have with the forget religion/love-Jesus crowd is that it seems they don't read or believe in the Bible. Which is dangerous. The Bible is essential for the Christian to know who God is, what his sacrifice was, the history behind the world, and how to lead a life like him. If your not following the tenets that he layed out in the Bible for you, there's no way you believe your a sinner. Which in turn doesn't really make you a Christian. I stay far away from beliefs like that. The uprising of this particular belief is kind of scary and yet at the same time hopeful. On one hand, I love the fact that Jesus is so loved by many people and their getting knowledge of him. Especially the young people like myself. But on the other hand, if they don't read the Bible, how they can know who he truly is and what he did for them? How can they grow spiritually in him? I took the path less traveled as a teenager and a pre-teen by not engaging in things most teens seemed to be doing at the time like drugs, alcohol, and sex. I did it because of God. And I grew spritually and I know so much now as an adult (but still learning) because of me opening my Bible and reading it, praying in the dark times, asking God for understanding of what I was reading, and just a continuous journey of seeking God. So that is why I am so weary but yet hopeful for this generation of the hate-religion/love-Jesus crowd. When they say their hating religion, I interpret that as them saying they hate the customs and tenets that God outlined in the Bible for them to follow. And that's definitely scary to me.
The Harlem Shake is a victimless, joyful bit of exuberance.
We live in a world with war and hunger and child abuse. And you're worried about Christians doing the Harlem Shake? Wow. Sorry, but.... wow. Can someone please tell me (outside of that whole uptight, Calvinist, finger shaking thing) we are so afraid of finding JOY in our lives much less in church?
Loud, Sheena. Please sing loudly. Tell them to crank up the amps so the world will know Jesus is being worshiped with gladness of heart!
Amen DewDeop!!!! It IS LOUD! My teenagers LOVE IT!!! We are a considerate grop though - we give out earplugs for the sensitive. Not many takers.
Here's what I love! I REALLY ENJOY GOING TO CHURCH! So do the kids! We all have FUN at church!
DewDrop, you get it!
The Harlem shake is controversial? How? It's a trendy dance. The kids had fun. If you look through the videos you will see lots of pictures of people of many age groups singing, laughing, dancing and having fun. As DewDrop wrote "we worship with gladness in our hearts"!!!
We make a joyful noise appropriate to 2013! We enter His gates with praise - appropriate to 2013, amplifies by Marshall amps, played with Fender guitars, Roland keyboards and Ludwig drums!
Whoooweeee! Do we have a blessed fun time at Church!
On a slightly more serious note, anyone who works with children (myself included) has submitted to a child abuse background clearance.
Funds are accounted for by an independent, non-Movement affiliated, and secular auditor who comes in every six months to ensure that everything is on the up and up.
One of the Pastors left a high paying job at a Megachurch because he felt called to serve in the Mahoning Valley.
Another couple in full time ministry sold his home in an exclusive gated community because he and his wife felt called to serve here.
There are many other wonderful projects that we are involved with. Project 330 serves a local inner city area - not with a hand out, but with a hand UP - residents are given a small plot of land and invited to grow a vegetable garden to feed their families. They are taught principals of sustainable gardening by experiences gardeners and people with an agricultural background.
We clean up that same area and invite community members to help.
We study the bible and read it! Individually and in groups. We make time to fellowship with one another in the summer through growth groups that cater to our interests - from running, to men's groups, to weekly house parties and craft groups.
People are not over worked or burnt out by serving. All leaders are servants and are expected to work once weekly - in child care, the Cafe, as a greater, in maintenance of the facility, in audio visuals, or performance.
There are no seat warmers. But everyone is welcome!
My guess is all those kids doing the Harlem Shake have a Bible in their backpack or on their iPhone and read it while they're waiting for their order at Taco Bell.
I'm actually very familiar with this kind of church. Southern California has had them since the Jesus Movement of the 60's. Bible reading, joy-filled, service-oriented churches preaching the GOOD news of Jesus Christ with words and music. The mega churches (which some people seem to have problems with but .... whatever) grew out of street pastors baptizing people in the Pacific Ocean.
I'm glad to see street-level worship reaching people in need. It's a reflection of how Christ spread His message.
I think once people understand that these churches are centered around Christ and the gospel, much the misunderstanding about them goes away. You'll see that happen in your community, Sheena. I'm sure. People in the community start reaching out TO the church. It's pretty cool.
Last edited by DewDropInn; 05-28-2013 at 07:25 PM..
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What's the point?
