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Old 06-18-2013, 12:16 AM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,168,127 times
Reputation: 2295

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You made these same objections in that thread. Your comments reflect your ignorance of the facts and your personal opinion.
Your dismissal of the top textual critics as pseudo authorities trying to protect their profession reflects your personal bias.
But you believe they have no bias; the tendency or inclination to express their own opinion?

Quote:
Of course Textual criticism is not applied to the original autographs. If we had the original autographs there would be no point in using textual criticism. That should be quite obvious.
What is quite obvious is that of conjecture without the Original Autographs, or a deeper understanding of historical linguistics.

Quote:
The purpose of Textual criticism is to compare the extant manuscript copies with the goal of arriving as closely as possible to the content of the original autographs. Through textual criticism those translational errors you refer to are discovered which brings us closer to the original text.
But who would believe our report? Especially, when they have turned an age into an eternity and his desire; to that of "wishful" thinking!

Quote:
Despite your objections, the simple fact of the matter is that the evidence for the New Testament writings is far greater than the evidence for other ancient works whose authenticity is not questioned.

One of the quotes in my other thread is from F. F. Bruce.

F. F. Bruce (1910-1990) was Rylands Professor of Biblical Criticism and Exegesis at the University of Manchester, England. He stated...
Fortunately, if the great number of MSS increases the number of scribal errors, it increases proportionately the means of correcting such errors, so that the margin of doubt left in the process of recovering the exact original wording is not so large as might be feared; it is in truth remarkably small. The variant readings about which any doubt remains among textual critics of the New Testament affect no material question of historic fact or of Christian faith and practice. [The New Testament Documents; Are They Reliable?, F.F. Bruce, pgs. 14-15.]
A quote which I did not use in the other thread is from British paleographer and biblical and classical scholar, Sir Frederic Kenyon (1863 - 1952). He wrote...
The interval then between the dates of original composition and the earliest exant evidence becomes so small as to be in fact negligible, and the last foundation for any doubt that the Scriptures have come down to us substantially as they were written has now been removed. Both the authenticity and the general integrity of the books of the New Testament may be regarded as finally established. ['The Bible and Archeology' (1940), pp. 288-89; as quoted in 'The New Testament Documents', F.F. Bruce, p. 15]
If the value of textual criticism as applied to the Bible is to be dismissed, then its value as applied to all ancient works must be dismissed as well.
Much of ancient history and its fables have been blended within the Belief Systems or Religion of men.

Quote:
Quite frankly, you simply are not qualified to dismiss the value of textual criticism. Better stick with spouting your dime store philosophy and fortune cookie sayings.
Where do you think they come from? Better yet!
Where do you think the temple of the Spirit is, if not within us?

Apparently, you follow the opinions of men; not realizing that the Spirit is alive and active.

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Old 06-18-2013, 12:34 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
32,892 posts, read 26,117,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
But you believe they have no bias; the tendency or inclination to express their own opinion?

What is quite obvious is that of conjecture without the Original Autographs, or a deeper understanding of historical linguistics.

But who would believe our report? Especially, when they have turned an age into an eternity and his desire; to that of "wishful" thinking!

Much of ancient history and its fables have been blended within the Belief Systems or Religion of men.

Where do you think they come from? Better yet!
Where do you think the temple of the Spirit is, if not within us?

Apparently, you follow the opinions of men; not realizing that the Spirit is alive and active.

No, I follow the Word of God, and I also recognize that there are men of God who are prepared with regard to the original languages and theology, and history, and textual criticism and are therefore qualified to teach the word of God.

I have stated a number of times on this forum that the Bible must be studied in the filling of the Holy Spirit who is the true Mentor.

By the way, I also know that during this present dispensation the believer is indwelt by all three Persons of the Trinity. Also, it is the believer's body which is the temple of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 6:19).

And again, you are not qualified to dismiss textual criticism or the reliability of the Bible. However, that will not stop you from speaking out of ignorance as you so frequently do. But we are done here.
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Old 06-18-2013, 01:13 AM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,168,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
By the way, I also know that during this present dispensation the believer is indwelt by all three Persons of the Trinity.
If you say so, it must be true; even if it's not Scriptural.
But I am not paying for the consultation fee.

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Old 06-18-2013, 08:13 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
32,892 posts, read 26,117,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post

By the way, I also know that during this present dispensation the believer is indwelt by all three Persons of the Trinity. Also, it is the believer's body which is the temple of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 6:19).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
If you say so, it must be true; even if it's not Scriptural.
But I am not paying for the consultation fee.

Free of charge...

1.) Indwelling of God the Father:
Eph. 4:6 One God and Father of all (believers - John 1:12) who is over all and through all and in all.
2.) Indwelling of Jesus Christ:
Romans 8:10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
3.) Indwelling of God the Holy Spirit:
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

1 Cor. 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:54 AM
 
45,269 posts, read 26,773,195 times
Reputation: 23636
Adding to Mike's post, Jesus prayed to the Father...

John 17:20-21 - "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

He prayed ahead of time regarding our unity with Himself and the Father.

Also...

John 14:23 - Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

Again - Jesus stating ahead of time that the Father and Himself will dwell with believers.
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,168,127 times
Reputation: 2295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No, I follow the Word of God, and I also recognize that there are men of God who are prepared with regard to the original languages and theology, and history, and textual criticism and are therefore qualified to teach the word of God.

I have stated a number of times on this forum that the Bible must be studied in the filling of the Holy Spirit who is the true Mentor.

By the way, I also know that during this present dispensation the believer is indwelt by all three Persons of the Trinity. Also, it is the believer's body which is the temple of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 6:19).

And again, you are not qualified to dismiss textual criticism or the reliability of the Bible. However, that will not stop you from speaking out of ignorance as you so frequently do. But we are done here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
If you say so, it must be true; even if it's not Scriptural.
But I am not paying for the consultation fee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Free of charge...

1.) Indwelling of God the Father:
Eph. 4:6 One God and Father of all (believers - John 1:12) who is over all and through all and in all.
2.) Indwelling of Jesus Christ:
Romans 8:10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
3.) Indwelling of God the Holy Spirit:
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

1 Cor. 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Adding to Mike's post, Jesus prayed to the Father...

John 17:20-21 - "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

He prayed ahead of time regarding our unity with Himself and the Father.

Also...

John 14:23 - Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

Again - Jesus stating ahead of time that the Father and Himself will dwell with believers.
Interesting, as there are two who witness to my Spirit; the Father and Son, who are One in Spirit and truth.

Ephesians 4:4-6
There is One body and One Spirit, just as also you were called in One Hope of your calling ...
One Lord, One faith, One baptism, One GOD and Father of ALL who is OVER ALL, THROUGH ALL AND IN ALL.

Last edited by Jerwade; 06-18-2013 at 08:40 PM..
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:17 AM
 
376 posts, read 416,654 times
Reputation: 100
It's indeed odd "Son" is missing/added.
But imo it's implied because the whole verse is a little word game on new year and wedding.

The Jewish new year was declared by the calendar court based on moon sightings. They could calculate a date but due to weather conditions the date could be one day later.
That strongly hints towards a date in September/October.

A little more obvious is the wedding custom.
Boy and girl betrothed. (that ceremony has lots of parallels with Jesus last week)
The boy went home and started to prepare the bridal chamber/room (manion with many rooms)
The preparation usually lasted 1-2 years. During that period the boy was often asked when they will be married.
The boy didn't know because his father had to approve his room.
So the more or less standard answer was "Only my father knows" because only his father could approve the room.


So this verse pinpoints the day and month within a 2 day accuracy. (but not the year)
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:53 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,837,729 times
Reputation: 2226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No, I follow the Word of God, and I also recognize that there are men of God who are prepared with regard to the original languages and theology, and history, and textual criticism and are therefore qualified to teach the word of God.
Kinda like you, huh?...
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