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Old 11-07-2007, 12:52 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County
49 posts, read 72,353 times
Reputation: 22

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Hi yhwhshalomjr,

Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess Him one day. Will this be the result of free will or God's will? This will not be an option. Is it wrong for God to force His will upon us?


God is truth, and Truth is beyond and regardless of any circumstances. it is the mortar of existence.

Free will is present. Alas, just because one's will is free does not mean it is unswayable. For the Father does not petition his children, the Father provides for his chidren, if the children want to be stubborn and not acknowledge this truth, then they can chose to live miserably. Truth is eternally, inherently presented by prostration, not bowing to it is not acknowledging it.

tell me whats wrong with this.+--
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Old 11-07-2007, 01:49 AM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 14,112,466 times
Reputation: 1328
Hi eyeof the day, thanks for responding. If something is swayable, it can be moved. All will be moved to bow and confess Him. Are our wills then absolutely free? Will anyone be able to refuse to bow or confess to God if God says that they will bow to Him or confess Him? I believe that this will be done willingly because God will be able to convince all. Why do people choose to live miserably? Because they are lost, enslaved to sin, yield to sin, but the true light which enlightens every man has come into the word (John 1) Will anyone be able to not acknowledge the truth if they will all confess Him?

Isaiah 46:9

"I have made the earth and created man on it,
It was I- My hands that stretched out the heavens,
and all of their hosts I have commanded.
I have raised him up in righteousness,
I will direct all his ways (or make all of his ways straight). (NKJV)

God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 11-07-2007 at 02:09 AM.. Reason: addition
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Old 11-07-2007, 02:41 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County
49 posts, read 72,353 times
Reputation: 22
what can i say about Isaiah that will not take away from its beauty. you seem to be looking through opened eyes as well.

'I believe that this will be done willingly because God will be able to convince all'

I agree with you for the most part on this, but i just think that applying the notion, 'God will be able', waters down the workings of God, he has to do nothing but,Be, He Is. We can chose to confide in His living waters or attempt to deprive ourselves, a choice yes, a smart choice no, but our frailties keep us from fully grasping Divinity, and procalim that the Truth Is and we all will face it, and He will guide us to where we are meant to be. When this is realized those who didn't bow to him before will have seen his Majesty, and the universe will unfold as it should!


+--
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Old 11-07-2007, 09:55 AM
 
2,946 posts, read 4,868,090 times
Reputation: 1610
No power can defeat his will. “Thy will be done.” Matt. 6:10. “He doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?” Dan. 4:35. “He worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.” Eph. 1:11. The will of God, then, will be done. No power can defeat it. It is certainly a doctrine of revelation that our God will save all men.

God purposes the salvation of all men. “Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth, even in him.” Eph. 1:9,10. What do the words, “all things which are in heaven and on earth,” signify? Professor Steuart, one of the most prominent Orthodox divines and writers in the Union, says they mean the UNIVERSE, and in exact accordance with this definition, Archbishop Newcome says, they signify all INTELLIGENT BEINGS. It is the purpose of God, then, to gather together, in Christ, the universe of intelligent beings. A purpose worthy of our great Creator

“The Lord of hosts hath sworn, saying surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have PURPOSED so shall it stand – for the Lord of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? And his hand is stretched out and who shall turn it back?” Isa. 14:24, 27. “I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass: I have purposed it, I will also do it.” Isa. 46:11.
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Old 11-07-2007, 10:36 AM
 
2,946 posts, read 4,868,090 times
Reputation: 1610
It is the pleasure of God that all shall be redeemed. “For thou hast created all things, and for they pleasure they were and are created.” Rev. 4:11. “As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked.” Ezek. 33:11.
His pleasure will be accomplished. “My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.” Isa. 46:10.
God will never have any other purpose, pleasure or will, for he is “without variableness or shadow of turning.” James 1:17. Who can doubt the salvation of all men?

God is the Savior of all men. “We both labor and suffer reproach because we trust in the living God who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.” I Tim. 4:10. God is called the Savior of all men, because it is his will and purpose that all shall be saved, and because all necessary means are provided for its accomplishment.

Those were just some thoughts I found on another site that I truly believe.
I love this topic because I think it brings such a joy and a renewed love of people and God when it`s truth is embraced. We have a hard time understanding that we don`t somehow,someway have a part in our own salvation. Because if you do the choosing,then no matter how small that part is,you still did something to get it.You may not have been the one to die on the cross but you had to, at the very least, be discerning enough or intelligent enough to take it. Where as your neighbor wasn`t. My friends,we had no part in it whatsoever. God does the choosing. We are not smart enough,discerning enough, or righteous enough to know God`s plan more than our neighbor. My friend,if you know the truth then it is because God opened your eyes to it. It is not because in your free will or in your own intelligence or discernment that you chose him. We humans are all alike. We are the clay..he is the potter. God will eventually be victorius over satan. Some people just do not want to believe that. They want to believe that satan will
win out and take 99% of Gods creation to everlasting torment and hellfire where they will be tortured forever and ever and ever. Maybe it is because of pride we want to believe we have a part in our salvation or maybe it`s because that is what we have been taught in our American churches. Our family believed that and our friends believe that and our pastor and Sunday School teacher believe that,so since we trust them,we believe them. My prayer is that you will search God`s truth about this and pray that he will lead you because you want to know the truth and not just follow the doctrines of men. God bless....
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Old 11-07-2007, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County
49 posts, read 72,353 times
Reputation: 22
'My friend,if you know the truth then it is because God opened your eyes to it'

exactly.
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Old 11-07-2007, 02:36 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 14,112,466 times
Reputation: 1328
Quote:
It is the pleasure of God that all shall be redeemed. “For thou hast created all things, and for they pleasure they were and are created.” Rev. 4:11. “As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked.” Ezek. 33:11.
His pleasure will be accomplished. “My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.” Isa. 46:10.
God will never have any other purpose, pleasure or will, for he is “without variableness or shadow of turning.” James 1:17. Who can doubt the salvation of all men?

God is the Savior of all men. “We both labor and suffer reproach because we trust in the living God who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.” I Tim. 4:10. God is called the Savior of all men, because it is his will and purpose that all shall be saved, and because all necessary means are provided for its accomplishment.

Those were just some thoughts I found on another site that I truly believe.
I love this topic because I think it brings such a joy and a renewed love of people and God when it`s truth is embraced. We have a hard time understanding that we don`t somehow,someway have a part in our own salvation. Because if you do the choosing,then no matter how small that part is,you still did something to get it.You may not have been the one to die on the cross but you had to, at the very least, be discerning enough or intelligent enough to take it. Where as your neighbor wasn`t. My friends,we had no part in it whatsoever. God does the choosing. We are not smart enough,discerning enough, or righteous enough to know God`s plan more than our neighbor. My friend,if you know the truth then it is because God opened your eyes to it. It is not because in your free will or in your own intelligence or discernment that you chose him. We humans are all alike. We are the clay..he is the potter. God will eventually be victorius over satan. Some people just do not want to believe that. They want to believe that satan will
win out and take 99% of Gods creation to everlasting torment and hellfire where they will be tortured forever and ever and ever. Maybe it is because of pride we want to believe we have a part in our salvation or maybe it`s because that is what we have been taught in our American churches. Our family believed that and our friends believe that and our pastor and Sunday School teacher believe that,so since we trust them,we believe them. My prayer is that you will search God`s truth about this and pray that he will lead you because you want to know the truth and not just follow the doctrines of men. God bless....
Amen!!
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Old 11-07-2007, 02:51 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 14,112,466 times
Reputation: 1328
Quote:
'I believe that this will be done willingly because God will be able to convince all'


Quote:
I agree with you for the most part on this, but i just think that applying the notion, 'God will be able', waters down the workings of God, he has to do nothing but,Be, He Is. We can chose to confide in His living waters or attempt to deprive ourselves, a choice yes, a smart choice no, but our frailties keep us from fully grasping Divinity, and procalim that the Truth Is and we all will face it, and He will guide us to where we are meant to be. When this is realized those who didn't bow to him before will have seen his Majesty, and the universe will unfold as it should!

Hi I agree that our frailities keep us from fully grasping Divinity, but I don't believe that many people believe that God is able to convince all. Maybe they believe that the "free will" of man cannot be interfered with or will not be interfered with. I believe that God has all power and that the stubborn will of someone who is lost and blinded is no match for Him. If someone continues to reject God, they are a prisoner, not free and any "choice" that they make is the result of satan's work. It isn't because they were free to choose or reject God of their own free will. There is no middle ground. We are with God when God opens our hearts to the truth or we are with satan who blinds and deceives. But ultimately God controls the reigns of satan who will ultimately be defeated. Jesus said that He came to destroy the works of satan.




Quote:
He will guide us to where we are meant to be.
Amen! ....

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 11-07-2007 at 03:34 PM..
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Old 11-07-2007, 06:12 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 14,112,466 times
Reputation: 1328
Quote:
We are the clay..he is the potter.

Amen. Jesus speaks of drawing all to Him and this indicates some kind of force. (John 12:32)

*draw (helko) =drag=signifies drawing by inward power, by divine impulse (W.E. Vine)
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Old 11-07-2007, 08:04 PM
 
2,946 posts, read 4,868,090 times
Reputation: 1610
I just wanted to add that just because I believe God will win out over satan and save his creation,I still believe that we have a limited sense of free will as far as what our earthly minds consider free will. Some people might say you can`t have limited free will..that`s like being a little pregnant..but I disagree. In our minds and as far as we relate to each other we have a sense of free will but God is ultamently in control. I have the free will to get up and walk in the next room but God`s plan over the course of time will be done and there is nothing I or anyone else can do about it. So sometimes we bring pain and suffering on ourselves with the decisions we make,but God allows it to fullfill his plan for you. Either way,it`s for his purpose and in his time. That`s why we should have faith even when going through the suffering that it is working for our good and God is in control. We live in the day to day and our suffering can seem like a lifetime,but God is not bound by time and he knows the outcome. We can`t physically see the outcome and that is where our faith comes in. We have to trust God that it will end to our benefit. One of my favorite verses that brings me comfort is Psalms 30:5 ....`For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.` If you were ever grounded for a weekend as a child,it was torture to know your friends were out playing and having fun. You had to stay in and it felt like forever,like cruel and unusual punishment. But to your parents,the weekend was a short period of time and they knew there would be plenty of more weekends. I think that is the way our suffering appears to God,if not to us.

I also believe there will be suffering and punishment for unbelievers in the age to come. I believe God will save his creation but I also believe in hell and punishment. I believe there will be suffering and wailing and gnashing of teeth. I believe there will be regret, sorrow, and shame. I don`t know how long that will last,it would be interesting to hear others opinions on that. It could last hundreds or thousands of years but in the end every knee will bow and tongue confess. God will wipe away every tear from our eyes. That is the day I long for, when God Almighty finally reconsiles ALL things to himself. Just think about how awesome that will be. Can you even imagine?
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