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Old 06-20-2013, 06:02 PM
 
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Priests Demand Pelosi Renounce Catholicism After Abortion is "Sacred Ground" Comment | LifeNews.com

In an open letter to Pelosi, Priests for Life says her comments make a “mockery of the Catholic faith.”
“With this statement, you make a mockery of the Catholic faith and of the tens of millions of Americans who consider themselves “practicing and respectful Catholics” and who find the killing of children — whether inside or outside the womb — reprehensible,” the letter says.



This is about time IMO.
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:11 PM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,095,422 times
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Originally Posted by janelle144 View Post
Priests Demand Pelosi Renounce Catholicism After Abortion is "Sacred Ground" Comment | LifeNews.com

In an open letter to Pelosi, Priests for Life says her comments make a “mockery of the Catholic faith.”
“With this statement, you make a mockery of the Catholic faith and of the tens of millions of Americans who consider themselves “practicing and respectful Catholics” and who find the killing of children — whether inside or outside the womb — reprehensible,” the letter says.



This is about time IMO.
kudos to them. I respect them for it. If you don't want to live the religion, don't be part of it.
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:15 PM
 
Location: NJ
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They "demand" it? So what happens when she doesn't?
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
12,688 posts, read 6,687,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144 View Post
Priests Demand Pelosi Renounce Catholicism After Abortion is "Sacred Ground" Comment | LifeNews.com

In an open letter to Pelosi, Priests for Life says her comments make a “mockery of the Catholic faith.”
“With this statement, you make a mockery of the Catholic faith and of the tens of millions of Americans who consider themselves “practicing and respectful Catholics” and who find the killing of children — whether inside or outside the womb — reprehensible,” the letter says.

This is about time IMO.
I have to say I agree with the priests on this one. Either you are Catholic or you are not. If you are Catholic, it is no light thing to ignore the Pope and the entire leadership of the RCC when they have made perfectly clear how grave a crime abortion is.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText
Quote:
Abortion

2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception.

From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.71

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.72 My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.73

2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion.
This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable.
Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:

You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.74
God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves.
Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.75

2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense.
The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life.
"A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"76 "by the very commission of the offense,"77 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.78
The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy.
Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

2273 The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:

"The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority.
These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin.
Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being's right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death."
I do hesitate to quote a Catholic source since I am not Catholic, but if anyone here is, perhaps they can point out anything I may have missed. The Holy Church does not appear to have the slightest tolerance for abortion and Pelosi (or any other politician who supports abortion rights) is obviously guilty of "Formal cooperation in an abortion" which "constitutes a grave offense."
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Old 06-20-2013, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
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Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Moderator cut: Orphaned
I can't say that I'm a big fan of forcing beliefs on others, but if the formal Catholic Doctrine on abortion is, "Abortion = Murder (possibly worse than murder??)" and merely helping others to get an abortion is an excommunicatable offense (kinda sounds like it), then perhaps Nancy Pelosi should start shopping around for another religion.

You or I are not in the same position of course. We do not actually vote on abortion legalities. Mrs Pelosi does.

If recent history is any indication, Pelosi will continue to vote pro-abortion, American priests will continue saber rattling, and nothing much will happen beyond that. Still, the hard-line stance Catholicism has taken on the matter is pretty clear. A pro-abortion Catholic would be about the same thing as a Baptist who denounces the Bible, tosses it in the garbage, insists that the Quran is "the only word of God" and still wants to call themselves Baptist. It's kind of a tough sell in both cases.

Last edited by june 7th; 06-21-2013 at 01:04 PM..
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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Calling voting to maintain abortion rights, or even to modify them only so far as to outlaw partial birth abortion could hardly be called "formal cooperation in abortion," the key term being "formal."
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
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Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Calling voting to maintain abortion rights, or even to modify them only so far as to outlaw partial birth abortion could hardly be called "formal cooperation in abortion," the key term being "formal."
Now "formal cooperation" could be debated lots of ways certainly. Since the RCC is establishing that from conception onward, each unborn baby/fetus/embryo/whatever has the right to life, I think the implication is pretty clear: They want abortion to be illegal absolutely everywhere and they feel that the right to life supercedes any law any earthly government can enact. Pelosi voting in favor of abortion rights maintains the formal legality of the practice. I think that these American priests are barking up that very tree.

As I said, I think this one plays out just like we saw with John Kerry: Saber rattling for awhile, but no official action will be taken. I'm just saying that in light of how anti-abortion the RCC is, you're not much of a Catholic if you're actively supporting the practice. And if the RCC stops being so timid and actually excommunicates a few politicians over the matter, it wouldn't be inappropriate at all. Their club, their rules.
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:21 PM
 
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I am a practicing Catholic and here's the thing. Yes Catholics are opposed to abortion but one of the tenets of the faith is helping the poor. I will readily admit the abortion issue for me is a mixed bag because I know personally I would feel it's a life and I doubt I would consider abortion. However on the other hand when you mix in issues like rape or health of the mother then it get confusing. Some people would insist in the life of the mother that she should sacrifice so her baby will live but to that I disagree. Not to mention in that case likely the fetus would die too. However if we are talking using abortion as a form of birth control (and yes some do)or other reasons it seems cruel. I have seen sonograms at 8 weeks and it looks like a baby to me not a clump of cells. I tell men I date that in the event I become pregnant before marriage (not likely because I have vowed to be abstinent until marriage because of the religion)I will not abort and will expect him to marry me.

I wasn't always very devout. In my 20's I was an avowed feminist who saw no problem with abortion under any circumstances. While researching from both sides I can't be like that anymore. Also, while doing research have discovered Planned Parenthood is a dirty organization more concerned on their agenda than anything else.

ETA: Stats I have seen say that less than 3% of all abortions are because of health of the mother (which is VERY slim in these days)or rape/incest. That means of course 97% are not from these reasons. I don't know the percentages but am willing to bet a large percentage are scared teens girls and others are people who use it as a form of birth control.
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:54 PM
 
Location: among the chaos
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Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
I have to say I agree with the priests on this one. Either you are Catholic or you are not. If you are Catholic, it is no light thing to ignore the Pope and the entire leadership of the RCC when they have made perfectly clear how grave a crime abortion is.

I do hesitate to quote a Catholic source since I am not Catholic, but if anyone here is, perhaps they can point out anything I may have missed. The Holy Church does not appear to have the slightest tolerance for abortion and Pelosi (or any other politician who supports abortion rights) is obviously guilty of "Formal cooperation in an abortion" which "constitutes a grave offense."
godofthunder, you are absolutely correct! Pelosi and Biden have been making a mockery of the Catholic Church for years. They have been seen on nationally publicized TV receiving Holy Communion in the Vatican on more than one occasion.

LifeSiteNews Mobile | Pro-abortion Biden and Pelosi receive communion, but not from Pope at inaugural Mass

"Either you are Catholic or you are not."
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:55 PM
 
23,653 posts, read 17,423,312 times
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The bill up on the hill right now is to stop abortions at 20 wks when science has proven the fetus, which means offspring by the way, can feel pain. Most Dems won't even consider it. Nice huh, and Obama will veto the bill if it gets to his desk. Evil, but he owes PP for giving him so much money during his election.

How does that work? We give our tax money to PP and they give it to a certain candidate they like to get him elected. I thought their money went to help women get medical treatment.
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