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Old 11-07-2007, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
In knowing what you know:

How do you know it is the Christian god?

Thanks in advance...
I know it is God..To me that is all..It is God..The almighty one to whom all believers seek..
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Old 11-07-2007, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Texas
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Smile It's Jesus...

Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
In knowing what you know:

How do you know it is the Christian god?

Thanks in advance...
Because as I posted originally in this thread, if you examine the gospels you find this really "unexpected" character named Jesus whose words resonate truth. I think the evidence for His resurrection and that He was who He claimed to be is substantial. More subjectively, I have experienced His healing, and other supernatural experiences related to calling on His name.
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Old 11-08-2007, 01:48 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,814,687 times
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Originally Posted by june 7th
Quote:
How do you know it is the Christian god?
I don't. But I was brought up in the Christian faith and my parents are both Christians. Because my parents loved me, I'm able to recognise love.
Once I discovered that Judaism, Christianity and the Islam all proclaim that only their religion has the last prophet and that a child cannot be wiser than his parents, I simply stopped believing in Genesis and Revelations. Because I also do not believe in a Holy Trinity, the resurection of Christ, or an afterlife I do not consider myself a Christian anymore.
But I agree with Jesus that only the truth can lead you to god.
So far Jesus has never let me down.
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Old 11-08-2007, 02:46 AM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,491,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
In knowing what you know:

How do you know it is the Christian god?

Thanks in advance...
Dear June, we all worship the same God, but our egoes make us think that our religion is the only real religion (imho) if we take the time to study all the teachings they speak of the same God.

What are the characteristics of this God or Spirit?

Love, Peace, Bliss, Wisdom

that's why in most meditation techniques you concentrate in those characteristics.

Meditation = concentration in God

Praying can be meditation too, if it's done with the deepest devotion of your soul.

imho It doesn't matter what religion, prayer or meditation technique you follow, what God really wants is that you open your heart to him, if you do this you'll feel him in your heart and soul, that's the only proof you need, because once you've felt him you can't go back, you might stray off from him sometimes because of life's hardships and your ego setting you traps, but once you've felt the divine presence and developed the divine desire, you can't get rid of it anymore

However, once we've chosen a path to God, we should better stick to it, if you keep wandering from religion to religion and from teachings to teachings you'll never go far. (imho)

Just try to call God, with all your strenght in the language of your heart and he'll come to you.

Quote:
“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.”

Jesus Christ.
Quote:
"Ordinary love is selfish, darkly rooted in desires and satisfactions. Divine love is without condition, without boundary, without change. The flux of the human heart is gone forever at the transfixing touch of pure love."

Swami Sri Yukteswar
Quote:
"Most people consider the course of events as natural and inevitable. They little know what radical change are possible through prayer. Every morning I offer my body, my mind and any ability that I posses, to be used by Thee, O infinite creator, in whatever way Thou dost choose to express Thyself through me. I know that all work is Thy work, and that no task is too difficult or too menial when offered to Thee in loving service".

Paramahansa Yogananda
Quote:
Love is the light that dissolves all walls between souls, families and nations.

Paramahansa Yogananda

Last edited by Travelling fella; 11-08-2007 at 02:57 AM..
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Old 11-08-2007, 05:58 AM
 
7,813 posts, read 10,713,131 times
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Default Notes with sharps and flats

For anyone familiar with music, the notes comprising any tune consist of sharp and flat notes. I suppose what I am asking is analogous to that.

I understand, (intellectually) what everyone is saying about the positive feelings that their belief provides them. I also understand, (pretty well, I might add!) what the NT says and stands for. What is not as clear is how that = belief and/or acceptance in the Christian god...I cannot help but be somewhat suspect as regards the emotional aspect, alone. How does one necessarily know that that is God? How does that positive emotion translate into belief in God, Jesus, etc.?

What I am thinking is more of a transient, fleeting, "blip" of conscious awe. It is usually intimately tied in with the creative process, or simply "surfaces" at times of and with extraordinary clarity. A sense of self cohesive awe. As such, how would the nonbeliever equate that with the Christian God and belief? --Or wouldn't they?

How is that "music" connected to the "band?"

Just idyll queries, once again...

But I truly appreciate and thank everyone for their kind responses.

And patience!

Take gentle care.

Last edited by june 7th; 11-08-2007 at 06:03 AM.. Reason: Grrrrrrrrrrr! again, but still trying! :)
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Old 11-08-2007, 06:35 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,577 posts, read 21,736,183 times
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June, as a friend this is not meant to belittle yours or anyones questioning mind..This is my feeble attempt to explain something that can't be explained unless a person wants to believe, needs to believe, and has a spark deep down inside that craves above everything else to believe there will always be a reasonable question or arguement not to believe. That question (in my opinion) is a battle in your soul for your free will, or choice..There is no amount of reasoning, begging, beratting or bible thumping that any one can do to make Junes choice..God won't let that happen..The choice is very personal between June and God...This post is my own personal opinion..I can't prove anything in it with scripture, the thoughts are from the very depth of my soul, and are the result of a very personal relationship with God..I can't force this opinion on anyone, nor am I trying to force it on my dear friend June, but...she asked
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Old 11-08-2007, 06:53 AM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,491,802 times
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Let me see if I understood you well my dear friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
For anyone familiar with music, the notes comprising any tune consist of sharp and flat notes. I suppose what I am asking is analogous to that.
If I got your idea, this phenomenon you speak about is what makes harmony posible, because you need to know the combinations of sharp and flat notes in order to play the desired scale in the desired key, I guess that a belief system has to be like this too, we are unique because God is unique and our souls were created in his image so you need to find the right scale (religion or concept of God) that resonates with your soul in harmony, building a divine chord!

Quote:
How does one necessarily know that that is God? How does that positive emotion translate into belief in God, Jesus, etc.?
Well, the divine presence is something that has no words to be described, you just know he came to you because you feel something that nothing else in the world can make you feel, it touches your soul and changes you forever, the sweetest melody can't compare with the melody of his divine voice.


Quote:
What I am thinking is more of a transient, fleeting, "blip" of conscious awe. It is usually intimately tied in with the creative process, or simply "surfaces" at times of and with extraordinary clarity. A sense of self cohesive awe. As such, how would the nonbeliever equate that with the Christian God and belief? --Or wouldn't they?
Well I guess that it depends on the Christian concept of God and belief you choose, because the different Christian religions are in different keys, a lot of them might match and create harmony with the concept of God you just described.

Higher consciousness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cosmic consciousness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These states of conciousness can only be reached by intuition, that's the sense you use to find God, for me your words are the perfect description of intuition


Quote:
What I am thinking is more of a transient, fleeting, "blip" of conscious awe. It is usually intimately tied in with the creative process, or simply "surfaces" at times of and with extraordinary clarity. A sense of self cohesive awe.
You have a developing intuition June, use it and follow your heart do what it tells you, with it you'll know what's the key you need to create that chord of the divine experience.

As a final word, the holy spirit, word/verb of god, amen, aum or om is the musical engine that makes this creation or the divine song of god, where all of us are singing (some in harmony some in disonance) possible

Aum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Take gentle care too!

Last edited by Travelling fella; 11-08-2007 at 07:07 AM..
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Old 11-08-2007, 07:42 AM
 
3,086 posts, read 5,666,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmom


God is powerful enough to reveal Himself to you with out any knowledge of Him. So WHY do you believe? What does it feel like to believe?
Why? The music spoke to my heart...in a way that no other music can. To believe is simply to recognize this and follow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
AND:

"the view that the existence or nonexistence of God is currently unknown but is not necessarily unknowable, therefore one will withhold judgment until/if more evidence is available...saying 'I don't know, but maybe you do.'
IMO there will never be more evidence available than there already is... but to recognize the evidence is what is up to us! Actually, IMO, everybody's soul, the deepest part of their being, does recognize this...its just that, as blue mentioned, there will always be something battling against this... our tendency to walk with our eyes wide open.

Quote:
How do you know what you know?
Quote:
--Because there isn't a shadow of a doubt in my mind that you do. What is so intriguing about "agnosticism" is that it's definition is "lack of knowledge." What is it that you know, and how do you know it? Specifically: How do you know that it is God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, etc.
We didn't "know" God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit when we first heard the few notes ringing in the air. This "knowledge" comes by following the music... not the other way around: (following the music because of our "deepest knowledge" in Them.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
For anyone familiar with music, the notes comprising any tune consist of sharp and flat notes. I suppose what I am asking is analogous to that.

I understand, (intellectually) what everyone is saying about the positive feelings that their belief provides them. I also understand, (pretty well, I might add!) what the NT says and stands for. What is not as clear is how that = belief and/or acceptance in the Christian god...I cannot help but be somewhat suspect as regards the emotional aspect, alone. How does one necessarily know that that is God? How does that positive emotion translate into belief in God, Jesus, etc.?

What I am thinking is more of a transient, fleeting, "blip" of conscious awe. It is usually intimately tied in with the creative process, or simply "surfaces" at times of and with extraordinary clarity. A sense of self cohesive awe. As such, how would the nonbeliever equate that with the Christian God and belief? --Or wouldn't they?
As blue mentioned, we don't feel like we are following "the Christian God". We feel we are following GOD. And it is much, much more than "positive feelings" or "emotions". The "emotions" don't translate into the beliefs... it's the other way around! Hard to fathom, maybe, but IMO that's the way it is...and it doesn't necessarily begin with an "awe," either...

Hard to explain, but...

When a person sees the music in people around them, or hears a few notes themselves, it will result in questioning. (How? Why?) Not a big feeling of awe. Not an overwhelming belief or emotion, but a nagging question..??

And that is the very beginning... recognizing the music.

The "awe", "positive feelings", "emotions", "knowledge", comes later... it will never come first. (IMO) We will never hear the whole song until we are following the first notes... and even then, not completely until we see the band... but enough to know that the band is ahead!

Hope at least some of this makes sense!
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Old 11-08-2007, 07:51 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,814,687 times
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Originally Posted by june 7th
Quote:
How does one necessarily know that that is God?
You don't that is why it is called faith. Then again, how do you know that a van Gogh is art? Is it art because you like it, or do you only like it because you were taught by others to like it?
Anywayz, beauty, like art and love, is in the eye of the beholder. What one calls art, the other calls trash.
But not really KNOWING (as that I know that a circle can only be round) doesn't bother me at all. I just go by with the things I do know. I don't get confused when I read parts of the bible or other holy texts that seemingly contradict each other.
Because since I was a child my foundation has always been love (and not religion). At first it was instinctive, but as I have grown older I'm able to reject the things I found wrong but which my parents thought was all right. Sometimes I had to destroy certain aspects of the foundation my parents had build just to be able to expand my foundation. Even though I know that my own foundation is build upon my parents' it is mine now.
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Old 11-08-2007, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Anywhere but here!
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For the sharp and flat notes, you can look at this in two different lights.

#1 Good and evil, pleasure and pain, bliss and suffering, God and satan. If one was to only experience the good, pleasure and bliss without experiencing the pain and suffering, how would we know there was any other choice to make? Without the seasons of pain and suffering, one wouldn't fully be capable of enjoying and fully comprehend the seasons of pleasure and bliss in our lives. Without the the mountains to climb, we would never be able to fully see the views that God put out there for us.
To put it more simply...If you lived in Seattle, you would completely relish and embrace the days of sunshine. If you live in Arizona, you embrace the days of rain. If we're too familiar with ONE "norm" we EMBRACE the "different". If your life was just peachy 100% of the time, you would never grow, you would never learn, you would never become stronger and learn how to overcome barriers and obstacles. No one ever "wants" to feel pain, but this pain helps us to embrace the good things in life when they come our way.

#2 The sharps and flats of knowing God: As stated above, God gives us many mountains to climb, but He also gives us just as many valleys as well as all the beautiful scenery in between. While He may let us fall flat on our faces more times than we would care to count, He also picks us up and puts us back on the path...but each time we are better and stronger than ever before. While during the "sharp" times we may feel very overwhelmed and even hopeless at times, when we get back to the "flats" we are stronger, more determined AND more prepared for the next "sharp" in our life.
Of course, in this analogy, I am using "sharp" as being the pain and suffering and the flats as being the times of peace.
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