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View Poll Results: Is acceptance of the formalized doctrine of The Holy Trinity a prerequisite for salvation?
Yes 4 21.05%
No 13 68.42%
Maybe 1 5.26%
No Idea 1 5.26%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-01-2013, 08:29 PM
37,553 posts, read 25,268,086 times
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The trinity is just a poor attempt to understand consciousness before it was even known or considered. The Ecumenical councils were political enclaves designed to formalize the opinions of the religious leaders at the time, period. Neither the Councils nor the Bible are "authoritative" in the sense meant . . . as God's Word. They are for our instruction, period. Christ is the Living Word of God and abides with us.
Originally Posted by feildway View Post
Anyway awareness or consciousness has been understood for thousands of years.
This is an absurd claim. We do not understand consciousness yet even today! We experience it but our personhood was always attributed to our physical body . . . which is incorrect. Our consciousness defines our personhood.
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Old 07-01-2013, 08:43 PM
37,553 posts, read 25,268,086 times
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Originally Posted by feildway View Post
There have been a few ways over the years that people have used to understand the Mystery, a few years ago I thought of the teaching, we were made in God's image.

Image - abstract.

A) When we interconnect with others, our consciousness could be said one distinct truth in itself.

B) Our unconscious mind which we know helps guide and protect us, could be said another distinct truth.

c) Our soul, allows in its measure or state a guiding potential to B) which guides A) in growth. A person can only grow from a workable, understandable point of reference.

There are three in man, the unconscious mind can make decisions in of itself, this is a known, therefore it would be "open to the value" which it would able maintain and able to grow from.

The only way it could be open to a value, or measure or some call it state, is to be subject to something other, to the inner quiet "I" the soul. A bridging interconnecting three open, to God.

This could be likened to a common ground association by its form, in communication. Common ground a necessary in all language and communication.

I thought of this a couple of years ago wondering about things. We were made in God's image another one of the idea's in this and thought about it, no arguing intended. It seems to make sense along with the writings for myself anyway.

A) Jesus
B) The Holy Spirit
C) God
There are some interesting ideas about consciousness here. We are indeed made in God's image (imagination?) and likeness (having imagination like Him?). Think about it . . . it poses some very interesting possibilities. Your three parts of human consciousness track with the sources of human motivation and behavior. There is the reptilian brain (Serpent?) which is an undiscriminating animal response to every stimulus presented to it. There is our cerebrum (Big Brain) the source of our conscious awareness evaluating, discriminating and controlling the responses generated by the reptilian brain. And there is our Spirit (unconscious Soul) which is the composite of the output of the former two sources and ever growing in strength and influence. It's common ground is the universal field that establishes our reality . . . IOW God's consciousness (Holy Spirit).
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:40 PM
Location: Chicago Area
7,516 posts, read 3,872,612 times
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Originally Posted by feildway View Post
lots of good points and enjoyed reading. Its a mystery what exactly god would be anyway, no matter what it Is, would be outside of time or have dominion over time, as we experience and know the process to be.

Aquinas stopped writing at one point and some asked after some time why, he said that he was consecrating and had some kind of a vision or something, and nothing he ever wrote seemed to be in the capturing or could be, in this strange idea of what he saw in the idea of creation I guess, only remembering from what I read. He was a very good and sincere guy, if his life is read it pretty much obvious that there was no interest for att or money, he came from a wealthy family who did not want him to be any kind of a priest at all. No question he was gifted with a great mind.

anyway my opinion is the largest mistake a human being can make is refusing to use the available brain power or comprehensible common sense they have. It makes no sense to create a full picture or concept perfectly in your head about god.

Also...people use the word God...so much that it becomes so often said, and used that the concept becomes within the self suggestion, something that is completely self known and understood, which is illogical. The human is in fact the creature, no matter what we are restricted in understanding and science confirms this with relativity. God would be in dominion of relativity. My opinion is that all idea's man has of God can only be approach to what would be. If the approach is in understanding who is who, with the humility feature I think that's the most important in opinion . So we can't know all god and put him in a box which is what we do with everything, in a natural way trying to reduce and understand things, the nature of reason and coming to a reduced point. We can't reduce god I don't think to a 'limited point', -( this could or may be possibly expanded on with some meaning on its own alongside textures and meaning in prayer ) great post in a difficult subject.
There are two ideas that are pillars of traditional Christianity: The Trinity and a closed canon of scripture. Both have tremendous value to the believers. The Trinity gives them a well defined description of God and manages to allow them to still claim monotheism while reverencing three: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The closed canon eliminates many writings that were certainly not written by "authorized" messengers of God. And without some limits, anything and everything becomes scripture. The Sears Catalog, the compiled works of Danielle Steel, etc. It does seem to be appropriate that scriptural canon is limited to revelation directly from God.

The trouble with both: Neither of them seem to come directly from God. Revelation from God via a committee debating and eventually voting? When has God ever revealed himself in such a manner? Both doctrines effectively limit the limitless. God can no longer speak because a committee of humans said so? I'm not buying it unless God said so himself. Father, Son and Holy Spirit stuffed into a dogma that conveniently satisfied the doctrinal political correctness of the day? Again, I'm not buying it unless God said so himself. Both of these things might be true, but they also might not.

The way God describes himself, he is an extradimensional being. A limitless being for which all time is always present and all space is also always present. How dare we tell such a being what he is and try to limit him based on our finite 3rd dimensional comprehension? I don't think we have the ability to comprehend what God is actually like. Every prophet or apostle who has tried to describe God hasn't found the vocabulary to do so and has more or less said as much. How dare we tell God he can no longer speak? Perhaps the hundreds of bishops attending each Ecumenical Council had the very best of intentions, but that does not make a committee, debate and vote of the assembly the authorized voice of God. Actually, it's just politics. That is why I do not recognize the authority of Ecumenical Councils. If others choose to do so, they are welcome to. Just don't start condemning and damning those who don't.
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