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Old 07-15-2013, 09:37 AM
 
Location: In a state of Grace
796 posts, read 668,937 times
Reputation: 173

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Universalism claims that sooner or later all people will be saved. The position claims the idea of hell and punishment is inconsistent with a loving God.

The original form of universalism, which began in the second century, taught that salvation would come after a temporary period of punishment. The new form of universalism declares that all men are now saved, though all do not realize it. Under this new universalism the job of the preacher and the missionary is to tell people they are already saved. Certain passages - John 12:32, Philippians 2:11, and 1 Timothy 2:4 - are typically twisted out of context in support of universalism.

Such passages, interpreted correctly, do not support universalism:

John 12:32 says that Christ's work on the cross makes possible the salvation of both Jews and Gentiles. Notice, however, that the Lord - in the same passage - warned of judgment of those who reject Christ (v. 48).

Philippians 2:10-11 assures us that someday all people will acknowledge that Jesus is Lord, but not necessarily as Savior. (Even those in hell will have to acknowledge Christ's Lordship.)

First Timothy 2:4 expresses God's desire that all be saved, but does not promise that all will be. This divine desire is only realized in those who exercise faith in Christ.

The Scriptures consistently categorize people into one of two classes (saved/unsaved, also called believers/unbelievers), and portray the final destiny of every person as being one of two realities (heaven or hell).

In Matthew 13:30 Jesus in a parable said, "Let both [tares and wheat] grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn." Here unbelievers and believers are spoken of as tares and wheat. Two classes!

In Matthew 13:49 Jesus said, "This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous." Again, two classes are mentioned - unbelievers and believers spoken of as the wicked and the righteous.

In Matthew 25:32 Jesus said that following His second coming, "All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats." Here believers and unbelievers are differentiated by the terms "sheep" and "goats." The sheep will enter into God's kingdom (vs. 34) and inherit eternal life (vs. 46). The goats go into eternal punishment (vs. 46).

In Luke 16:26 we find Abraham in the afterlife telling the unsaved rich man: "Between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us." Hades apparently had two compartments: "paradise" for the saved, and "torments" for the unsaved - and these compartments were separated by a great chasm or gulf.

Clearly, then, the Scriptures speak of two classes of people (the saved and the unsaved) and two possible destinies (heaven for the saved; hell for the unsaved). And each respective person ends up in one of these places based upon whether or not he or she placed saving faith in Christ during his or her time on earth (Acts 16:31).

Last edited by balunman; 07-15-2013 at 10:37 AM..

 
Old 07-15-2013, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,627,358 times
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That is not completely accurate or very stereotying. For example, I'm a universalist, but do not believe that everyone is currently saved. I do believe in due time that all will be. I also do believe in judgement. I believe all born with Adam's sin.

Most importantly, universalism is the only doctrine I know of that speaks of the complete eradication of sin at its source (in the minds and hearts of men). It is not a relocation plan like Eternal Torment where sin gets handed a kingdom and Sin sits in lordship over its subjects for the rest of Eternity. Jesus didn't go away to build a place for Sin to have dominion.

Last edited by trettep; 07-15-2013 at 09:59 AM..
 
Old 07-15-2013, 09:53 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,161 posts, read 19,964,744 times
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Talk about flogging a dead horse. If you can find a scripture where it states Jesus Christ saved us from eternal hell, you have a case, but thankfully scripture does not teach it.

The wrath of God upon a person is not meaning someone is hell bound. It's only upon someone who as not come to the reality yet that God is for them and not against them. I know it is difficult for you evangelical fundamentalists to comprehend that God is actually for the world not against it in its present state, this is why it takes faith to accept and understand it. What you don't realize is you are actually working against God not for him with your message of condemnation for all who do not believe when you want them to. He did not come to condemn the world but to save it and he is, not from eternal hell, but a life of independence from him, which is no life at all. He came that we might have life and life more abundantly.
 
Old 07-15-2013, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
60 posts, read 80,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
He did not come to condemn the world but to save it and he is, not from eternal hell, but a life of independence from him, which is no life at all. He came that we might have life and life more abundantly.
Agreed. When Jesus said all who believe in him will have eternal life, I do not see that pertaining to any future time frame. What is eternal? That which has no beginning or end. And the scriptures teach us that only God has no beginning or end. John 17:3 says that eternal life is knowing Jesus Christ and the Father who sent him. The kingdom of Heaven is inside you (Luke 17:21), not somewhere in the clouds in the afterlife.

Eternal life is basking in the immense glory of God and knowing his ultimate goodness and love which destroys all fear. It gives you assurance that there is a purpose to suffering and pain, and that there is spiritual rest in him who saved you. Without eternal life within you while in this earthly Age, you are perishing in your sin, in fear, with no assurance and no rest.

Again, nothing to do with endless torment or heavenly bliss after we die. Otherwise it would not be called eternal, because our spiritual life following this one, does indeed have a beginning. And that destroys the definition of eternal.
 
Old 07-15-2013, 12:55 PM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,564,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balunman View Post
Universalism claims that sooner or later all people will be saved.
Not "sooner or later". Exactly according to God's plan and timing. Salvation is by God's grace. Faith is "not of ourselves", it is a gift from God. Works are not of ourselves because "we are His workmanship"

Quote:
The position claims the idea of hell and punishment is inconsistent with a loving God.
Judgment and punishment of which gehenna and the lake of fire are symbols, are totally consistent with universalism.

Quote:
The original form of universalism, which began in the second century, taught that salvation would come after a temporary period of punishment. The new form of universalism declares that all men are now saved, though all do not realize it. Under this new universalism the job of the preacher and the missionary is to tell people they are already saved. Certain passages - John 12:32, Philippians 2:11, and 1 Timothy 2:4 - are typically twisted out of context in support of universalism.
There is no "new" unversalism that has taken over for some "old" universalism. There are different people with different beliefs.

Quote:
John 12:32 says that Christ's work on the cross makes possible the salvation of both Jews and Gentiles. Notice, however, that the Lord - in the same passage - warned of judgment of those who reject Christ (v. 48).

Philippians 2:10-11 assures us that someday all people will acknowledge that Jesus is Lord, but not necessarily as Savior. (Even those in hell will have to acknowledge Christ's Lordship.)
Take a look at this parallel passage from Isaiah:

Isaiah 45:22-42
Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. 23 I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath. He shall say, 'Surely in the LORD I have righteousness and strength. To Him men shall come, And all shall be ashamed Who are incensed against Him.

1. God commands all men to look to him to be saved. Will they?
2. God declares that those words will not return void but that all will bow to him. That bowing is a fulfillment of God's words not returning void in the same sentence.
3. Those who bow will say "Surely in the LORD I have righteousness and strength." which is trusting the Lord for salvation.
4. Being ashamed of our sin is also a part of salvation.
 
Old 07-15-2013, 12:57 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
2,819 posts, read 2,765,344 times
Reputation: 1245
No judgement ? Not. True. There will be judgment , weeping and gnashing. It is not this just go to heaven and be all loving. It is a process.
 
Old 07-15-2013, 01:04 PM
 
37,489 posts, read 25,224,572 times
Reputation: 5854
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Talk about flogging a dead horse. If you can find a scripture where it states Jesus Christ saved us from eternal hell, you have a case, but thankfully scripture does not teach it.

The wrath of God upon a person is not meaning someone is hell bound. It's only upon someone who as not come to the reality yet that God is for them and not against them. I know it is difficult for you evangelical fundamentalists to comprehend that God is actually for the world not against it in its present state, this is why it takes faith to accept and understand it. What you don't realize is you are actually working against God not for him with your message of condemnation for all who do not believe when you want them to. He did not come to condemn the world but to save it and he is, not from eternal hell, but a life of independence from him, which is no life at all. He came that we might have life and life more abundantly.
Excellent post!
 
Old 07-15-2013, 01:09 PM
 
Location: In a state of Grace
796 posts, read 668,937 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torpedos View Post
No judgement ? Not. True. There will be judgment , weeping and gnashing. It is not this just go to heaven and be all loving. It is a process.
Excellent post. Those who claim otherwise are just calling God a liar and following satan. They are deceivers of men trying to lead people to hell. They are to be avoided and cast out.
 
Old 07-15-2013, 01:13 PM
 
37,489 posts, read 25,224,572 times
Reputation: 5854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torpedos View Post
No judgement ? Not. True. There will be judgment , weeping and gnashing. It is not this just go to heaven and be all loving. It is a process.
Quote:
Originally Posted by balunman View Post
Excellent post. Those who claim otherwise are just calling God a liar and following satan. They are deceivers of men trying to lead people to hell. They are to be avoided and cast out.
I am glad to see you agree with us that we will "reap what we sow" through "weeping and gnashing of teeth" and not some absurd eternal torment.
 
Old 07-15-2013, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,627,358 times
Reputation: 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torpedos View Post
No judgement ? Not. True. There will be judgment , weeping and gnashing. It is not this just go to heaven and be all loving. It is a process.
The doctrine of universalism is not without Judgement. It is just that Judgement is not a vain effort with God but rather a reconciliation.
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