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Old 07-18-2013, 07:42 PM
 
18,199 posts, read 13,920,715 times
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This will be short. Many people think that you must add works to faith in order to be saved. But God does not contradict Himself. And so if Scripture shows that eternal salvation is through faith in Christ Jesus, then eternal salvation cannot in any way be associated with any meritorious works on your part. I will use just three verses which show that works are excluded as a requirement for eternal life.

1.) Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

2.) Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

3.) Romans 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Ephesians 2:8 says that salvation is by grace. Romans 11:6 says that if it is by grace it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. If works were a requirement for eternal salvation then grace would not be grace. But salvation IS by grace and therefore works can play no part in salvation. Or in maintaining salvation.


Works are a part of the spiritual life after salvation.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Don't get the two mixed up. And don't backload works onto salvation by using as some do, the following nice sounding but unbiblical phrase; 'While we are saved by faith alone, the faith that saves is never alone.' That is nothing but a back door approach to saying that if you don't have works you aren't saved.

But what about James you say? While I could explain James, the following study on the book of James goes into far more detail than I can on this forum while keeping it short.

What does James mean by 'saved'?

What does he mean by 'faith'?

What does he mean by 'justification' as opposed to Paul's technical use of the term?


If you consider it worth your while, then find out here.

Here is the link.>>> DeanBible.org: 1998 - James Go to the appropriate lessons concerning James 2:14-20, click and listen.


James-045 <<<----- Once in the site, click Here to listen
Does Saving Faith Necessarily Produce Good; James 2:13-16

James-046
Doctrine Plus Application; James 2:18-21

James-047
Vindication of Abraham by Works; James 2:20-24

 
Old 07-18-2013, 07:53 PM
 
34,761 posts, read 22,577,023 times
Reputation: 5602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
This will be short. Many people think that you must add works to faith in order to be saved. But God does not contradict Himself. And so if Scripture shows that eternal salvation is through faith in Christ Jesus, then eternal salvation cannot in any way be associated with any meritorious works on your part. I will use just three verses which show that works are excluded as a requirement for eternal life.

1.) Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

2.) Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

3.) Romans 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Ephesians 2:8 says that salvation is by grace. Romans 11:6 says that if it is by grace it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. If works were a requirement for eternal salvation then grace would not be grace. But salvation IS by grace and therefore works can play no part in salvation. Or in maintaining salvation.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Don't get the two mixed up. And don't backload works onto salvation by using as some do, the following nice sounding but unbiblical phrase; 'While we are saved by faith alone, the faith that saves is never alone.' That is nothing but a back door approach to saying that if you don't have works you aren't saved.
You are absolutely correct. Our salvation has nothing to do with our works. That is ALL Jesus. We are the beneficiaries of it and need to do NOTHING to benefit from His achievement . . . not even your supposed claims to "belief."
Quote:
Works are a part of the spiritual life after salvation.
Amen. They are part of the sanctification/justification process that WE are responsible for by making our spirits harmonious with Christ's love for us all. When we follow His commands to His disciples to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't . . . we achieve some harmonic resonance with His perfect agape love and attain cover for our imperfections. Whatever we do not repent of . . . we will reap whatever we have sowed. It will be refined out as dross in the consuming fire of God's pure love . . . but we are still "saved as by fire" because of Jesus.
 
Old 07-18-2013, 08:33 PM
 
18,199 posts, read 13,920,715 times
Reputation: 5983
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You are absolutely correct. Our salvation has nothing to do with our works. That is ALL Jesus. We are the beneficiaries of it and need to do NOTHING to benefit from His achievement . . . not even your supposed claims to "belief."


John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes on Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

Acts 16:30 and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31] They said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

John 3:36 "He who believes on the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey (apeitheó; refuses to be persuaded-does not believe) the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 544 apeithéō – literally, refuse to be persuaded (by the Lord). See 543 (apeitheia).
Strong's Greek: 544. ??????? (apeitheó) -- to disobey

No one has eternal life until they believe on Christ (faith being non-meritorious, the merit is in Jesus). Faith in Christ is the means by which the free gift of salvation is received.
 
Old 07-18-2013, 08:53 PM
 
794 posts, read 595,996 times
Reputation: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes on Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

Acts 16:30 and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31] They said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

John 3:36 "He who believes on the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey (apeitheó; refuses to be persuaded-does not believe) the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 544 apeithéō – literally, refuse to be persuaded (by the Lord). See 543 (apeitheia).
Strong's Greek: 544. ??????? (apeitheó) -- to disobey

No one has eternal life until they believe on Christ (faith being non-meritorious, the merit is in Jesus). Faith in Christ is the means by which the free gift of salvation is received.
Exactly! Well put.

Also here is a good article explaining the faith and works of James and Paul.

Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?
 
Old 07-18-2013, 08:56 PM
 
34,761 posts, read 22,577,023 times
Reputation: 5602
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You are absolutely correct. Our salvation has nothing to do with our works. That is ALL Jesus. We are the beneficiaries of it and need to do NOTHING to benefit from His achievement . . . not even your supposed claims to "belief."
Amen. They are part of the sanctification/justification process that WE are responsible for by making our spirits harmonious with Christ's love for us all. When we follow His commands to His disciples to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't . . . we achieve some harmonic resonance with His perfect agape love and attain cover for our imperfections. Whatever we do not repent of . . . we will reap whatever we have sowed. It will be refined out as dross in the consuming fire of God's pure love . . . but we are still "saved as by fire" because of Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes on Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

Acts 16:30 and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31] They said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

John 3:36 "He who believes on the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey (apeitheó; refuses to be persuaded-does not believe) the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 544 apeithéō – literally, refuse to be persuaded (by the Lord). See 543 (apeitheia).
Strong's Greek: 544. ??????? (apeitheó) -- to disobey

No one has eternal life until they believe on Christ (faith being non-meritorious, the merit is in Jesus). Faith in Christ is the means by which the free gift of salvation is received.
You are contradicting your strong (and correct) assertion that we have nothing to do with our salvation. Christ did it ALL. Claiming we must do ANYTHING to be saved is contradictory. You are referring to our sanctification and THAT does require works . . . through "love of God and each other" daily and repenting when we don't. It is your misunderstanding of "believe ON" that is misleading you and your mentors. What matters is an INNER conviction and acceptance of the guidance of Christ's Holy Spirit (Comforter) that directs us . . . NOT an external claim and acknowledgment. It can only be seen by its "fruits" . . . not what anyone proclaims.
 
Old 07-18-2013, 09:20 PM
 
794 posts, read 595,996 times
Reputation: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You are contradicting your strong (and correct) assertion that we have nothing to do with our salvation. Christ did it ALL. Claiming we must do ANYTHING to be saved is contradictory. You are referring to our sanctification and THAT does require works . . . through "love of God and each other" daily and repenting when we don't. It is your misunderstanding of "believe ON" that is misleading you and your mentors. What matters is an INNER conviction and acceptance of the guidance of Christ's Holy Spirit (Comforter) that directs us . . . NOT an external claim and acknowledgment. It can only be seen by its "fruits" . . . not what anyone proclaims.
Belief is not a work. It is an act of faith.
 
Old 07-18-2013, 09:35 PM
 
18,199 posts, read 13,920,715 times
Reputation: 5983
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You are contradicting your strong (and correct) assertion that we have nothing to do with our salvation. Christ did it ALL. Claiming we must do ANYTHING to be saved is contradictory. You are referring to our sanctification and THAT does require works . . . through "love of God and each other" daily and repenting when we don't. It is your misunderstanding of "believe ON" that is misleading you and your mentors. What matters is an INNER conviction and acceptance of the guidance of Christ's Holy Spirit (Comforter) that directs us . . . NOT an external claim and acknowledgment. It can only be seen by its "fruits" . . . not what anyone proclaims.
No. I am not. By denying that you must have faith in Christ in order to receive the free gift of eternal life you pit the Bible against itself. The same Bible which states that salvation is by grace through faith in Christ Jesus just as plainly states multiple times that one must believe on Christ in order to be eternally saved. There is no merit in faith. Man cannot take any credit for trusting in the finished work of Christ on the Cross. Putting your non-meritorious faith in the finished work of Christ precludes you from putting any faith in anything that you do. They are mutually exclusive.
 
Old 07-18-2013, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
13,247 posts, read 5,662,718 times
Reputation: 1353
Faith without works is dead....no faith at all. Faith is not a book definition of 'believe," it is MUCH more organic than that. We are not looking for dead faith, but a living faith that expressees itself in action. you can bandy words and definitions to your heart's content but what Jesus intended was a people set apart eager to do good works and you know this if you look in your heart and not your doctrines.
 
Old 07-18-2013, 09:43 PM
 
Location: East Coast
27,321 posts, read 17,958,532 times
Reputation: 1885
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Faith without works is dead....no faith at all. Faith is not a book definition of 'believe," it is MUCH more organic than that. We are not looking for dead faith, but a living faith that expressees itself in action. you can bandy words and definitions to your heart's content but what Jesus intended was a people set apart eager to do good works and you know this if you look in your heart and not your doctrines.
Exactly and we are not living the lfe of abundance if we are not living(being fruitful) by faith.
 
Old 07-18-2013, 09:53 PM
 
18,199 posts, read 13,920,715 times
Reputation: 5983
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Faith without works is dead....no faith at all. Faith is not a book definition of 'believe," it is MUCH more organic than that. We are not looking for dead faith, but a living faith that expressees itself in action. you can bandy words and definitions to your heart's content but what Jesus intended was a people set apart eager to do good works and you know this if you look in your heart and not your doctrines.
This thread is about what is required for eternal salvation. It is not about the believer's works after salvation. It has been plainly shown in the OP that works are not a requirement for eternal salvation.

Scripture states that grace excludes works on our part and that eternal salvation is by grace. Therefore works are not a part of salvation.

It was also plainly stated in the OP that works are a part of the believer's life after salvation and that they are not to be mixed up.
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