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First off, it kinda depends whether you believe in the rapture as described denominations that believe in it. Do events really play out exactly as they say they will? Are they missing some important details and events? The entire rapture theology is largely based on interpretations of the Revelation of John -- and that's tricky business for anyone. There are many many ways to interpret what John actually meant and countless theories in countless denominations read the Revelation completely differently from one another.
Everyone gets resurrected and eventually stands before Christ. That is what He promised would occur. That doesn't necessarily have to happen right after His second coming, does it? I imagine it happens later.
I totally reject the entire dispensational Theology that teaches about this so called "Rapture".
During Jesus' coming 1000-year reign over earth is when the majority of mankind [John 3 v 13 ] will have a resurrection back to live life on earth in healthy human perfection of having a sound, heart, mind and body.- Rev. 22 v 2; Gen. 22 v 18
"My kingdom is not of this world" .... Jesus
Psalm 90:4
A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.
2 Peter 3:8
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
The the problem with millennialism ... what it attempts to do is to outright deny the church's hope of Christ's only return to judgement and transport it into the stratosphere of their own esoteric speculations.
Though being generic enough so as to be not a "date setter" ... it's still the excercise of predicting:
A: The Milleniumist's rapture
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B: The Milleniumist's 7 year trib
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C: The Milleniumist's 1000 year rule.....
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The predicted year of Jesus' return
'In the twinkling of an eye' as in meaning those dead ones will not sleep in death as those who died earlier.
-1st Thess 4 vs 13-17 Those 'brothers' that reign with Christ have a first or earlier resurrection.- Rev. 20 v 6.
'Flesh' [ physical ] according to 1st Cor. 15 v 50 can Not inherit the kingdom [ no rapture but resurrection ]
"Twinkling of an eye" was simply referring to the briefest possible time we might imagine -- which is the context I was using.
The 'great crowd' of Rev. 7 v 14 is comprised of the humble 'sheep' of Matthew 25 vs 31,32, 40
The passage makes it pretty clear that these are those who were ultimately 'saved' during the Great Tribulation. How did you conclude that this had anything to do with the separation of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25 (an entirely different matter)??
Where did Jesus teach a 5-7 year opportunity to repent ?__________
During the 7-year Great Tribulation (up until the temple doors in heaven are closed and the 'Bowls of Wrath' are poured-out ... Probably closer to the 6-year point.), God's grace will continue to be extended to those on earth ... who will still have an opportunity to repent and turn to Christ.
I totally reject the entire dispensational Theology that teaches about this so called "Rapture".
And how does your rejection of it change the facts? I have a friend that rejected the entire idea that simi-truck existed. It didn't keep one from killing him.
Point is, what you accept or reject is irrelevant to the ways of God.
Once again, almost all the confusion and disagreement results from not "rightly dividing" the word of God. When you mix the rapture scriptures with the second coming scriptures and try to describe one event with that mixture you always are going to end up wrong. If you try to play baseball by using the rules of baseball and softball you will be making many mistakes. You just can't mix the Church and Israel and come out with any real understanding.
I recall the confusion and frustration of how that feels for I too once did not understand this principle.
"My kingdom is not of this world" .... Jesus Psalm 90:4
A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night. 2 Peter 3:8
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
The the problem with millennialism ... what it attempts to do is to outright deny the church's hope of Christ's only return to judgement and transport it into the stratosphere of their own esoteric speculations.
Though being generic enough so as to be not a "date setter" ... it's still the excercise of predicting:
So, the past 2,000 years are like two days in God's eyes.
So, in God's eyes Jesus' messianic thousand year reign over earth will be as if just one day.
Absolutely, God's kingdom is heavenly [ not of this world/earth ]
Jerusalem [ seat of government ] ABOVE is heavenly - Gal. 4 v 26
We do Not pray ' take me up to the kingdom ' nor do we pray 'take me away to the kingdom', rather we pray 'Thy kingdom come' or ' God's kingdom come ' . Come not to heaven but over earth.- Rev. 5 vs 9,10. Heavenly blessings to come to earth.- Rev 22 v 2. God's will [ what God wants ] being done here on earth as His will is being done in heaven.
There is No pollution in heaven, No sickness in heaven, No one goes to heaven to die in heaven, No crime in heaven.
So, we are praying for those same good heavenly conditions to come exist here on earth as they exist in heaven.
At Revelation 20 vs 2 to 7 mentions a thousand years six times.
Those called to heaven reign with Christ for a thousand years over earth - Rev, 5 vs 9,10 - until Jesus delivers up the kingdom to God according to 1st Cor. 15 v 24.
The 'Lord's day' of Rev. 1 v 10 is not a 24 hour day. Jesus will reign over earth [Psalm 72 vs 8,12-14] for a millennial-long day of a thousand years.
No one knows the day or hour [ including Jesus ]. But the 'Lord's day' [ Rev. 1 v 10 ] includes the fulfillment of all of Revelations 16 visions. The 'day' that God executes judgment on earth's corrupted system of things when the words from Jesus' mouth will slay the wicked [ Isaiah 11 vs 3,4; Rev. 19 vs 11,15 ] before Jesus ushers in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.
We are nearing the threshold of the 'harvest time' or 'time of separation ' for the genuine 'wheat sheep' and the fake 'weed-tares goats' to be separated at the coming time of Jesus' glory- Matthew 25 vs 31,32, 40.
The' twinkling of an eye ' of 1st Cor 15 v 52 is in connection to resurrection not rapture.
The 'trumpet' is in connection to 1st Thess.4 v 16 which is also in connection to resurrection not rapture.
The 'transfiguration vision' of Matthew 17 v 9 is in connection to Jesus future time of glory of Matthew 16 v 27; 25 v 31.
Jesus comes with his angels. The 'armies of heaven' of Rev. 19 v 14 are his angels.
Where in Scripture did Jesus teach a 5-7 year time frame? _______
'Just as the days of Noah were' [ Matt 24 vs 37, 42 ] was not a 5-7 year time frame.
[quote=Finn_Jarber;30576702]It will be too late, but some will turn to God after the rapture, although their number will be small.
I couldn't disagree (respectfully) more!
In my humble opinion, the rapture will result in the greatest number of new converts to Christianity the in the history of the world! Although they will be too late to take to the sky, these will be the Christians of the tribulation, many of whom will be martyred. Others will back down and reject Christ once again. I think THIS number will be the small one!
Think about how many people right here in the US have heard the gospel, knew that they needed to be saved but decided to "put if off" 'til later. In the last 2 generations of youth alone, the numbers are staggering! Add to that the millions of uncertain people around the world of different faiths who just aren't sure because they are trapped in their own religious doctrines. Once Muslims, Buddhists, Hindu's, Jews and those of lesser known religions see Jesus in the clouds and hear the trump of God, then see millions of Christians rising up from the ground (both above and below), they will know for certain the gospel is correct and their religion is not the true one. Amazingly, both confessed agnostics and atheists will shake their heads and say." I knew in my heart it was true but I rejectied it!!" They will also get saved in record numbers, I'm fairly sure!
The rapture is both a time of blessing and a time of sorrow. For the Christian it's up, up and away!!; while those who rejected God's free gift of salvation will curse themselves for their foolishness, pride and stubbornness.
The rapture marks the end of the "church age" and the beginning of a new era, one in which all sin and rebellion will be driven out of man and sin will cease to exist after 1,000 years.
Well, that is a great fairy tale. Some of you clearly wish this myth so true that you hope it does happen.
Well, I hate to say it, but Jesus is not coming back.
There is a common belief that some day Jesus will return, vanquish the great devil, and establish and eternal kingdom on earth. That the dead will rise up, follow Jesus and he will rule some peaceful kingdom, some paradise here on earth.
Well, not gonna happen. Would be nice but it is fantasy.
Some 5 q/2 billion or so years in the future, long after Homo sapiens is extinct and several other races have evolved to inhabit what is left of this planet, The Sun will begin to undergo a process of cooling and expanding. The corona will expand until it vaporizes the earth. No more earth, no more life on earth and no more "kingdoms" .....Our sun will evolve into a Red Giant, encompassing all the terrestrial planets (or rather what few charred cinders remain of them) This is not ancient myth or religious prophecy, this is scientific fact. This is the laws of physics at work. Later when it begins to run out of fuel (stellar nucleosynthesis) the Red Giant will form a planetary nebula, with a small dense white dwarf at it's enter. By this time, no remnants of the earth, not even some supposed "magical kingdom" will exist.
Now before you go calling your pastor asking him what to thing and how much money to donate to stop all this, consider that immortality is, in a way, one relative constant in this universe. The very chemicals that make up our bodies formed with the rise and death of the stars. Every molecule of oxygen we breath already existed, and will exist long after we are dead and gone. When our planet vaporizes, so will all the atoms and molecules on it, being absorbed by the sun then expelled outward into space. Who is to say that new stars will not form from the molecules in the paper you are printing right now? THAT is much more interesting and much more realistic than the return of some dead guy.
Just my perspective, something to help you in life. Here is another idea. Since Jesus is not coming back, how about going out now and working to make your world and the world of those around you a better place? Scary idea, it means getting off your duff and doing some work to help your fellow man. Now if you do that already, good job, if not, then remember: Two hands at work are more productive than a thousand joined in prayer. Do your part to make the world a better place. Jesus is not doing it for you. You will have to do it yourself.
It will be too late, but some will turn to God after the rapture, although their number will be small.
I couldn't disagree (respectfully) more!
In my humble opinion, the rapture will result in the greatest number of new converts to Christianity the in the history of the world! Although they will be too late to take to the sky, these will be the Christians of the tribulation, many of whom will be martyred. Others will back down and reject Christ once again. I think THIS number will be the small one!
Think about how many people right here in the US have heard the gospel, knew that they needed to be saved but decided to "put if off" 'til later. In the last 2 generations of youth alone, the numbers are staggering! Add to that the millions of uncertain people around the world of different faiths who just aren't sure because they are trapped in their own religious doctrines. Once Muslims, Buddhists, Hindu's, Jews and those of lesser known religions see Jesus in the clouds and hear the trump of God, then see millions of Christians rising up from the ground (both above and below), they will know for certain the gospel is correct and their religion is not the true one. Amazingly, both confessed agnostics and atheists will shake their heads and say." I knew in my heart it was true but I rejectied it!!" They will also get saved in record numbers, I'm fairly sure!
The rapture is both a time of blessing and a time of sorrow. For the Christian it's up, up and away!!; while those who rejected God's free gift of salvation will curse themselves for their foolishness, pride and stubbornness.
The rapture marks the end of the "church age" and the beginning of a new era, one in which all sin and rebellion will be driven out of man and sin will cease to exist after 1,000 years.
I pray you are right but I do not believe that will be the case. Actually I believe it will be presented as something else.
I have always envisioned that the day after the rapture that "Christian TV" will be all over the airwaves proclaiming it was not the rapture because they are still there. I see it as the time when all the religions will at last come together (at least most) and form the one world religion. This will be the perfect catalyst for such to take place.
imho
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