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Do you realize belief in good and evil is double minded?.
So you do not believe Jesus Christ destroyed him who the power over death ?. Have you also stopped and considered what that power is ?. Their is no kind of death that you believe in,just the fear of it promoted by the evangelists of it.
and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.Hebrews 2:15
I am convinced that Jesus is not double minded nor unstable.
Jesus said it ...
using the mind of Christ ....
saying what was written in his heart ...
not speaking on my his own authority, rather it is the Father
and those who do not listen to Jesus but find ways to refute what Jesus said.... are not children of God
No, the Book of Acts does not tell us that the early church did not mention 'hell'. I just got done explaining that to you. It cannot be dumbed down for you any more. And how uncomprehending can you be to say that the early church did not mention eternal punishment when Irenaeus stated that they did? The writings of the church fathers do not carry the authority of the New Testament scriptures but they do tell of what the early church believed. To therefore claim that the early church did not believe in eternal punishment when both the Bible and extra-biblical documents say that they did is simply ridiculous. And how desperate you are to avoid having to face the reality of eternal punishment that you make such claims.
And you still ignore the fact that Paul spoke of eternal separation from God.
This is a waste of time. You refuse to face reality. Just go on deceiving yourself.
Mike,
there are many early church writings not the Bible that talk about universal reconciliation (everyone getting into heaven, including our enemies).
So to simplify, we need to limit things to "sola scrittura." And that means what the early church in Acts did and didn't do. They didn't baptize in any name but Jesus Christ, for example. They lived together and had "all things common, according as each one had need." And, they didn't preach hell. It's simply not there.
And so if someone is "Bible-believing," that means they ought not preach things that are not in scripture.
1 Corinthians 16:22
If anyone does not love the Lord, let that person be cursed! Come, Lord!
Galatians 3:10
For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”
As much as the double-minded and unstable wants to ... no one who is cursed, is cursed by God snf goes to heaven.
Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway
But that's not what the early church preached. It's also not what Paul preached.
blessings!
brian
Oh ... Corinthians and Galations are not what Paul preached ... so that never entered into the early church because Jesus never taught it.
I am convinced that Jesus is not double minded nor unstable.
Jesus said it ...
using the mind of Christ ....
saying what was written in his heart ...
not speaking on my his own authority, rather it is the Father
and those who do not listen to Jesus but find ways to refute what Jesus said.... are not children of God
Do you believe Jesus Christ destroyed him who had the power over death ?. It is not a difficult question . Your silence on the question, goes to show that in your mind the power of death triumphed over the power of life. You need to let go of this idea that God is destroying man, he's destroying that which has the power over man.
If you see your child being destroyed by something and had the ability and power to intervene,do you destroy your child or that which is destroying your child?.
It is the difference between preaching fear and preaching freedom in Christ. You must see that preaching fear is all about control and preaching freedom in Christ is all about love of God and how it is lived out. What could be simpler?
It is the difference between preaching fear and preaching freedom in Christ. You must see that preaching fear is all about control and preaching freedom in Christ is all about love of God and how it is lived out. What could be simpler?
How can they speak of freedom in Christ( the awareness of the reality of God in our lives) when their reality which is ever before them is fear ?.
Mike,
there are many early church writings not the Bible that talk about universal reconciliation (everyone getting into heaven, including our enemies).
So to simplify, we need to limit things to "sola scrittura." And that means what the early church in Acts did and didn't do. They didn't baptize in any name but Jesus Christ, for example. They lived together and had "all things common, according as each one had need." And, they didn't preach hell. It's simply not there.
And so if someone is "Bible-believing," that means they ought not preach things that are not in scripture.
blessings,
brian
The issue is not whether something the early church believed is true or not. The issue is whether they believed it. And it is a matter of historically recorded fact that the early church believed in eternal punishment.
You are still trying to claim that the early church didn't believe in eternal punishment because the Book of Acts (which covers the first 30 years or so of the church) doesn't make a direct reference to 'eternal hell' while ignoring historical documents outside of the Bible which show you to be wrong. Just because Luke didn't directly mention 'hell', the lake of fire, the outer darkness, etc... in the Book of Acts doesn't mean the church didn't mention it.
The book of Acts by the way is the second of a two part writing of Luke. The first part is the gospel of Luke in which he does mention burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire (Luke 3:17). Not to mention the parable of Lazarus and the rich man which is a story which deals with an after death reality.
You are simply making feeble excuses in an attempt to justify ignoring what Paul, Peter, John, and even Jesus said about the reality of eternal punishment.
As I said above, the Book of Acts covers the first 30 years or so of the church. The missionary journeys of Paul are addressed in Acts. As mentioned in an earlier post the apostle Paul spoke of eternal destruction away from the presence of the Lord and away from the glory of his power (2 Thessalonians 1:9).
Now since Paul wrote about the unsaved undergoing eternal destruction away from the presence of the Lord, and since Paul's ministry is addressed in the Book of Acts, this shows that eternal punishment was taught in the early church, just as do the extra-biblical documents which you choose to ignore.
Furthermore, you do not believe the Bible which you have referred to in the past as stale manna. If you believed the Bible you would not ignore the passages which I have previously posted which speak of the eternal fire, and the outer darkness.
1 Corinthians 16:22
If anyone does not love the Lord, let that person be cursed! Come, Lord!
Galatians 3:10
For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”
As much as the double-minded and unstable wants to ... no one who is cursed, is cursed by God snf goes to heaven.
Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'
Oh ... Corinthians and Galations are not what Paul preached ... so that never entered into the early church because Jesus never taught it.
Got it.
Finally!
If the early church didn't preach it, neither should you. After all, the early church was also healing the sick and raising the dead. Once twin is able to do the same, then we'll talk.
But until that time, either we take the Bible seriously, or we follow someone's interpretation of it. If the early church didn't preach hell, neither should anyone else who claims to be part of the same church.
The issue is not whether something the early church believed is true or not. The issue is whether they believed it. And it is a matter of historically recorded fact that the early church believed in eternal punishment.
You are still trying to claim that the early church didn't believe in eternal punishment because the Book of Acts (which covers the first 30 years or so of the church) doesn't make a direct reference to 'eternal hell' while ignoring historical documents outside of the Bible which show you to be wrong. Just because Luke didn't directly mention 'hell', the lake of fire, the outer darkness, etc... in the Book of Acts doesn't mean the church didn't mention it.
The book of Acts by the way is the second of a two part writing of Luke. The first part is the gospel of Luke in which he does mention burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire (Luke 3:17). Not to mention the parable of Lazarus and the rich man which is a story which deals with an after death reality.
You are simply making feeble excuses in an attempt to justify ignoring what Paul, Peter, John, and even Jesus said about the reality of eternal punishment.
As I said above, the Book of Acts covers the first 30 years or so of the church. The missionary journeys of Paul are addressed in Acts. As mentioned in an earlier post the apostle Paul spoke of eternal destruction away from the presence of the Lord and away from the glory of his power (2 Thessalonians 1:9).
Now since Paul wrote about the unsaved undergoing eternal destruction away from the presence of the Lord, and since Paul's ministry is addressed in the Book of Acts, this shows that eternal punishment was taught in the early church, just as do the extra-biblical documents which you choose to ignore.
Furthermore, you do not believe the Bible which you have referred to in the past as stale manna. If you believed the Bible you would not ignore the passages which I have previously posted which speak of the eternal fire, and the outer darkness.
I am certainly willing to give consideration to all verses in scripture. My point is simple: if there is no record of the early church preaching hell, then it simply isn't Biblical to preach it. If Paul wrote anything in his letters, they didn't mention hell.
Why?
Because it apparently isn't a teaching to be preached to people! If the early church claimed to be the body of Christ, and the works they did confirmed this, then their message must also be taken as valid and worthy of consideration. And in there message, is no mention of hell. It's simply gone. Totally different from what Jesus preached.
If hell is part of the doctrine, and the unbelieve goes there, then why is there no record of it being preached to the unbelievers?? It would seem very negligent indeed to not warn people specifically of such a danger.
Do you believe Jesus Christ destroyed him who had the power over death ?. It is not a difficult question . Your silence on the question, goes to show that in your mind the power of death triumphed over the power of life. You need to let go of this idea that God is destroying man, he's destroying that which has the power over man.
If you see your child being destroyed by something and had the ability and power to intervene,do you destroy your child or that which is destroying your child?.
Using the mind of Christ .. referring to what was written in his heart ... Jesus said:
Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'...
And so does others who listen to the truth
1 Corinthians 16:22
If anyone does not love the Lord, let that person be cursed! Come, Lord!
Either you are repeating a liar or Jesus is.
The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father living in me, who is doing his work
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It's also not what Paul preached. 
Got it.
