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I think it's about the "plan" for responses...I think "pre-destined" is something we humans might feel we can be, but it's not something that we really are. We can go along with it though, if we recognize and believe that this ( preplanned, pre-destiny) is something we really want in life...I don't personally believe we can be pre-destined to live or act a certain way, destiny has nothing to do with what we plan in life, or what others have planned for us..... I feel that no-one can really know their own destiny.
Are those wbose names are already written predestined...
Ephesians 1:4 states that we are chosen since before the foundations of the world. God has decided before creation that we would be holy and blameless before him -- at least those that are of Christ.
Romans 8-9 goes into that a lot more. Those he foreknew, he predestined to be conformed to the image of his son, and he called them, justified them, and glorified. In Romans 9 he goes into more detail---it's entirely up to him whom he wants to predestine. Some he may predestine for salvation, some he might not. That's his call.
It means God predestined mankind for salvation. That's how I interpret Romans on predestination. Also he predestined us unto good works that he would do through us by the in-working of the Holy Spirit.
Well if you really believe God is choosing to save some and others he is not choosing, why would you waste your time arguing about theology, getting saved, etc... since it is, as you say, up to God. And btw, I don't disagree with you that God is sovereign over all things. But I don't believe he predestined anyone for destruction except the son of perdition, of course.
You don't believe it?...Then you are calling God a liar...
I'm having difficulty in seeing how you distinguish between the "prepared" when it is applied to destruction and when it is applied to mercy. If the "preparation" is what is meant by pre-destination, what is the difference? It sounds like you are saying that everyone is pre-destined to destruction but somehow mercy steps in and changes that "destination?" Verse 18 says,"Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden."
God let Pharaoh's heart be hardened - Exodus 8 vs 15,32. When the circumstance of seeing there was respite Pharaoh hardened his heart. The plagues were as if God gave Pharaoh enough rope to hang himself. The plagues were opportunities and occasions that worked out the wickedness in Pharaoh's heart. God in that sense hardened Pharaoh's heart by the use of those plagues which humiliated the Egyptian gods.
If we present oneself as unfit clay for molding then God can allow oneself to remain as hardened clay unfit for His molding.
For another....God tells us to study and show ourselves approved. We are to be ready in season and out.
I don't know how else to handle Romans 9.
It says that he has the right to do with his creation what he wants, just as a potter can take a lump of clay and make it for honorable use, and and another for a dishonorable use.
Romans 9:22 "What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?"
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Actually in the Greek it says 'having been prepared for destruction'....Implying that that is their purpose...
Were you not at one time a vessel of God's wrath? Were you not a vessel of dishonor with whom God was patient. If only you could see there are two of you bound together - one that must be destroyed, the other that will be glorified. I know you don't get it. Sorry.
You don't believe it?...Then you are calling God a liar...
The 'son or perdition ' or the 'man of sin' [ 2nd Thess. 2 vs 2-8 ] is a class or a group not an individual.
The clerical 'man of the cloth', so to speak, is the 'son or perdition' [destruction ] and the clerical 'man of sin' sit themselves in the ' temple' [ houses of worship ] as if they are God when in reality they are anti-God since the time of Acts 20 vs 29,30.
these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. ...
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
The Holy Spirit revealed that God only predestined the believer while not the unbeliever. To not correctly understand that is one of false teaching of Calvinists and those whithout the Holy Spirit.
No, that is not what Calvin taught...You are thinking of Hyper-Calvinism which derives from another source than Calvin...
As I see it as well, Heartsong. The first Adam/ the old man/the flesh vs. the Christ/the new man/the spiritual man. I believe it's a theme that is even alluded to in the OT, where often a younger son supplants the eldest (eg. Jacob and Esau, ref. Romans 9: "It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.").
That verse was intended to show the Sovreignty of God...
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