Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The reason I ask if you think God can sin is to make a point. God cannot sin. It is not within his nature. He is perfectly holy and just -- he just cannot sin and be imperfect.
Now...if we accept that....we can see that God doesn't necessarily have "free will" according to how most people define it--as he cannot actually choose to do ANYTHING he wants.
I haven't thought about how that God not being able to sin necessarily puts limitations on what God can and cannot do. That's probably what I was doing: looking at free will from the wrong definition. I was thinking of it as doing whatever you want to do. I think it means something different, but I haven't sorted it out yet.
This is the most recent thing that's been flitting about in my mind: It seems that there is this idea that biological processes explain away God; I get this impression that people make discoveries about chemicals and the role they play in motives and emotions and what not and say: see, that's why you were doing that, God doesn't have anything to do with it. I don't think it necessarily explains away God's presence in the slightest; rather, I feel it points out how magnificent and omniscient God is. I think He knows all about all those chemicals and how they promote certain motivations and what we think we are doing because we want to do something is really because of the specific balance of chemicals which makes us up (it's hard to explain and I haven't sorted it out yet).
Perhaps those who are unbelievers He has orchestrated everything so it falls into His basic plan while those who believe He works through them (certainly the right chemical balance will be present to explain away His presence again) to make what He has willed (different from what He wants) specifically happen.
This probably doesn't make any sense. Sometimes I wish I didn't think so much. I'll never understand it anyway!
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
The best answer several theologian gave ( which I can't go beyond of) is this:
"God's foreknowledge is not causative," the theologians say. Simply put, the fact that God knows
in advance that something will happen and that God's plan takes the event into account does not mean that God forced the event to occur.
and
As difficult as this may be for finite human beings, we must distinguish between God's foreknowledge and his will. God knows everything that will or could happen, but he does not cause everything that does happen.
Yeah, this is beyond my capability to comprehend right now and definitely calls for more studying. Nonetheless, I really feel a key point to keep always in mind is that in everything in our lives, the only purpose of it should be to glorify God; I just get this feeling that that is the key to it all, I don't know why.
But yeah, that He knows everything that will or could happen, but doesn't cause it... I just can't grasp it. It seems so much that He does cause some things, or at least that is the only way my mortal mind can comprehend it. Fascinating.
Last edited by Basiliximab; 08-03-2013 at 09:13 PM..
And that is the point of the question you decline to answer, "what was Paul saying?" "How does patience toward individuals who are going to be destroyed according to that perception apply?" Let's stop "teaching" and discuss.
I found the answer! I'll share it since no one else seems able to figure it out:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Pet 3
15Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation
I haven't thought about how that God not being able to sin necessarily puts limitations on what God can and cannot do. That's probably what I was doing: looking at free will from the wrong definition. I was thinking of it as doing whatever you want to do. I think it means something different, but I haven't sorted it out yet.
But yeah, that He knows everything that will or could happen, but doesn't cause it... I just can't grasp it. It seems so much that He does cause some things, or at least that is the only way my mortal mind can comprehend it. Fascinating.
Yes, God is limited because according to Titus 1 v 2 God can not lie.
That does not mean limited in power or strength [ abundant dynamic energy ]
Even Satan never challenged God's strength.
Adam was created as a free moral agent meaning he was free to obey God or disobey God.
Adam was Not created as an automaton or programmed robot.
Having the gift of free will [ Lev. 1 v 3 ] means that God chooses not to know our choice.
God's foreknowledge knew Jesus would come to earth for us, but not if Jesus would die faithful for us.
Jesus chose that upon himself or his own free-will choice.
Yes, as Ephesians 1 v 12 mentions the whole purpose for our existence is to be to the praise and glory of God....
Yes, God is limited because according to Titus 1 v 2 God can not lie.
That does not mean limited in power or strength [ abundant dynamic energy ]
Even Satan never challenged God's strength.
Adam was created as a free moral agent meaning he was free to obey God or disobey God.
Adam was Not created as an automaton or programmed robot.
Having the gift of free will [ Lev. 1 v 3 ] means that God chooses not to know our choice.
God's foreknowledge knew Jesus would come to earth for us, but not if Jesus would die faithful for us.
Jesus chose that upon himself or his own free-will choice.
Yes, as Ephesians 1 v 12 mentions the whole purpose for our existence is to be to the praise and glory of God....
How does Lev. 1 v 3 have anything to do with free will?...
Yes, God is limited because according to Titus 1 v 2 God can not lie.
That does not mean limited in power or strength [ abundant dynamic energy ]
Even Satan never challenged God's strength.
Adam was created as a free moral agent meaning he was free to obey God or disobey God.
Adam was Not created as an automaton or programmed robot.
Having the gift of free will [ Lev. 1 v 3 ] means that God chooses not to know our choice.
God's foreknowledge knew Jesus would come to earth for us, but not if Jesus would die faithful for us.
Jesus chose that upon himself or his own free-will choice.
Yes, as Ephesians 1 v 12 mentions the whole purpose for our existence is to be to the praise and glory of God....
I don't think any of what you stated has Scriptural support...
Yes, God is limited because according to Titus 1 v 2 God can not lie.
That does not mean limited in power or strength [ abundant dynamic energy ]
Even Satan never challenged God's strength.
Adam was created as a free moral agent meaning he was free to obey God or disobey God.
Adam was Not created as an automaton or programmed robot.
Having the gift of free will [ Lev. 1 v 3 ] means that God chooses not to know our choice.
God's foreknowledge knew Jesus would come to earth for us, but not if Jesus would die faithful for us.
Jesus chose that upon himself or his own free-will choice.
Yes, as Ephesians 1 v 12 mentions the whole purpose for our existence is to be to the praise and glory of God....
I just read Ephesians 1 v 12 it doesn't say anything about our purpose for existing...
How does Lev. 1 v 3 have anything to do with free will?...
If one does not have ' voluntary will ' then one does not have free will to voluntarily make choices.
Voluntary offerings [ Lev. 7 v 16 ] were free-choice offerings. That could not be done unless one had free will to choose.
If one does not have ' voluntary will ' then one does not have free will to voluntarily make choices.
Voluntary offerings [ Lev. 7 v 16 ] were free-choice offerings. That could not be done unless one had free will to choose.
We have no existence outside of HaShem...So, how can we have free will?...
We have no existence outside of HaShem...So, how can we have free will?...
Like Adam free to choose to obey God or free to disobey God.
Disobedience = death
Obedience = life
Choice is ours
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
