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Old 11-12-2007, 12:29 PM
 
7,099 posts, read 24,438,116 times
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what it boils down to, is that the very best, most helpful thing that could be done with all that money?

It may be 100% legal, but it sure doesn't seem right to preach one thing and live another way.
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Old 11-12-2007, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Maine
16,327 posts, read 20,664,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Padgett2 View Post
what it boils down to, is that the very best, most helpful thing that could be done with all that money?

It may be 100% legal, but it sure doesn't seem right to preach one thing and live another way.
Well said.

Wealth in itself is not sinful at all. What you do with your wealth can be sinful.

If an evangelist -- or ANYONE for that matter; corporate CEOS, actors, politicians, etc. -- is making millions of dollars every year and spending it all on himself, that is sin.

The Law, the Prophets, Jesus, the Apostles, and the saints are all quite clear on this. Ignoring the plight of the poor is grave sin.
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Old 11-12-2007, 08:28 PM
 
2,946 posts, read 4,868,090 times
Reputation: 1610
My personal opinion is that if a person feels called of God to preach his word then that person is held in a different light. They are to be above reproach or at the very least held to a higher standard. Personally, it angers me that these people make a mockery of God`s word and use it to their financial gain. That is just my opinion and I`m not saying that anyone has to agree with it because I know there are people who truly believe these so called ministers have a right to all the money they can get. But if you truly feel that you have a calling of God on your life to be on the world stage and preach his word then you should not be using the pulpit to get rich. If a person feels that the Holy Spirit is guiding them and giving them a word for God`s people and they turn around and say ,God`s really put this on my heart and if you send in a love gift or donation I will sell it to you,I mean reveal it to you,that is disgusting.God gave me this message and I put it in a book and I will sell it to you..imho, this person is not of God. This is kind of deception by false prophets and teachers,as you can tell,really gets my dander up! I truly believe some of these people started out with good intentions but became corrupted by money,power, and fame. That`s why Jesus gives stern warnings about the lure and trap of money..it can be powerful. Matthew 7:22-23 comes to mind whenever I think of these televangelist.

22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ People are so deceived because these people hold a bible in their hand and have a form of the truth. That is how satan deceives us..as an angel of light with a twisted version of the truth to deceive,not as a horrible disgusting monster...beware! There are literally people starving to death, homeless and needy and these false teachers are living a life of wealth and luxury that most people only dream about. I ask you,does this sound like someone who is following Jesus`s words. Some of their churches and seminars resemble a wordly rock concert more than a humble place of worship for lost sinners!
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Old 11-13-2007, 08:18 AM
Status: "No plan is a plan for failure" (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: Florida/Tennessee
2,232 posts, read 4,273,499 times
Reputation: 1139
Default Blessings are gifts... if received

To compare anyone's life to how Jesus lived, can only lead to one conclusion... all fall short and will fail. Jesus sets the bar for us, but who can achieve such spirituality? Who can say they lived as Jesus lived? in all manners in which He lived? When we condemn or judge others because they have many blessings in their life, that is satan's work, because condemnation is not of God. However it doesn't mean we should check our brains at the door, but rather evaluate by God's standards outlined in Timothy and Titus. This is wisdonm and discernment at work. Jesus tell su many will come in His name and be false, that is why we are giving may scriptures to "evaluate" not judge.
Can not a man/woman of God be prosperous with out being in alliance with satan? of course he/she can. Is not this great nation, a nation blessed because of our faith? of course it is. Blessing can and do come in the form of material things. Did not the children of Israel receive the land of "milk and honey"? yes they did. God allows the rain to fall on both weeds and plants, both grow and produce differently. There is evidence of their fruit and this is where we should look.

How does one know God's blessings are upon them? How do we recognize God's blessings for His children? What evidence is displayed when you have your name written in the book of life? These are the questions (short list) we should be asking. These are the type of questions for discernment to take root.

If living a life blessed with many gifts is evidence of spiritual depravity, then would living in poverty suggest spiritual righteousness? That is absurd. That is flawed logic. That is the father of lies... planting lies. Solomon was the richest person who ever lived, and he was a man of God. He taught us many things from his failures and possessions, but never the less was a godly man. Shall we condemn him as well? Lack of wealth does not assure godliness, nor does wealth and blessing indicated God's hand at work. We know God's hand is upon us when we give our first fruits, and God blesses us with an outpouring of his love. Are the blessings all in money? or material things? of course not. Children are blessings... should we condemn those who have many wonderful children? or those who do not? again that is absurd... but God is a smart ... and He wants us to receive His blessings to impact others in a positive way. When our gifts/blessings produce peace and joy, as a result of our faithful giving, they are of God.
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Old 11-13-2007, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
292 posts, read 859,242 times
Reputation: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by dojilynn View Post
Jesus may not have lived in a huge house, but living in a big house is not a sin. Just because they receive a large salary for their ministry does not mean that we have a right to judge. We have no idea how much they are putting back into the ministry or into missions or anything else that would be of help to people.

Also, some of them, like Joyce Meyers, also have a lot of book sales that would contribute to their wealth. Their money doesn't come exclusively from their actual ministry position.

God will ultimately be the judge of whether these people placed higher value on their money or their relationship with Him. We have no idea. All we can do is speculate...and while we're doing that, how are we being good stewards of our time? Shouldn't we be busy attending to that plank in our own eye?
I've had similar thoughts! Not to judge. I also feel the Lord likes to bless his people. We have no idea what these ministers have to go through.
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Old 11-13-2007, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
292 posts, read 859,242 times
Reputation: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
My personal opinion is that if a person feels called of God to preach his word then that person is held in a different light. They are to be above reproach or at the very least held to a higher standard. Personally, it angers me that these people make a mockery of God`s word and use it to their financial gain. That is just my opinion and I`m not saying that anyone has to agree with it because I know there are people who truly believe these so called ministers have a right to all the money they can get. But if you truly feel that you have a calling of God on your life to be on the world stage and preach his word then you should not be using the pulpit to get rich. If a person feels that the Holy Spirit is guiding them and giving them a word for God`s people and they turn around and say ,God`s really put this on my heart and if you send in a love gift or donation I will sell it to you,I mean reveal it to you,that is disgusting.God gave me this message and I put it in a book and I will sell it to you..imho, this person is not of God. This is kind of deception by false prophets and teachers,as you can tell,really gets my dander up! I truly believe some of these people started out with good intentions but became corrupted by money,power, and fame. That`s why Jesus gives stern warnings about the lure and trap of money..it can be powerful. Matthew 7:22-23 comes to mind whenever I think of these televangelist.

22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ People are so deceived because these people hold a bible in their hand and have a form of the truth. That is how satan deceives us..as an angel of light with a twisted version of the truth to deceive,not as a horrible disgusting monster...beware! There are literally people starving to death, homeless and needy and these false teachers are living a life of wealth and luxury that most people only dream about. I ask you,does this sound like someone who is following Jesus`s words. Some of their churches and seminars resemble a wordly rock concert more than a humble place of worship for lost sinners!
I believe not to judge but I have to admit...these very thoughts have also crossed my own mind.
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Old 11-13-2007, 09:46 AM
 
7,099 posts, read 24,438,116 times
Reputation: 7301
No, I don't think we should judge. Not at all, but I see the point in wondering why there is a need for a $100,000 car to get around town in. Most of us drive the same streets in one that cost a whole lot less. Does any couple need a house with umpteen rooms and an indoor swimming pool? It's nice to have, but I think we are only human if we wonder if something better could be done with the money.

I think it's the idea that doing God's work, which includes ministering to the poor and needy, turns out to be so profitable that we don't feel comfortable when we see it happening.
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Old 11-13-2007, 02:15 PM
 
2,946 posts, read 4,868,090 times
Reputation: 1610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
To compare anyone's life to how Jesus lived, can only lead to one conclusion... all fall short and will fail. Jesus sets the bar for us, but who can achieve such spirituality? Who can say they lived as Jesus lived? in all manners in which He lived? When we condemn or judge others because they have many blessings in their life, that is satan's work, because condemnation is not of God. However it doesn't mean we should check our brains at the door, but rather evaluate by God's standards outlined in Timothy and Titus. This is wisdonm and discernment at work. Jesus tell su many will come in His name and be false, that is why we are giving may scriptures to "evaluate" not judge.
Can not a man/woman of God be prosperous with out being in alliance with satan? of course he/she can. Is not this great nation, a nation blessed because of our faith? of course it is. Blessing can and do come in the form of material things. Did not the children of Israel receive the land of "milk and honey"? yes they did. God allows the rain to fall on both weeds and plants, both grow and produce differently. There is evidence of their fruit and this is where we should look.

How does one know God's blessings are upon them? How do we recognize God's blessings for His children? What evidence is displayed when you have your name written in the book of life? These are the questions (short list) we should be asking. These are the type of questions for discernment to take root.

If living a life blessed with many gifts is evidence of spiritual depravity, then would living in poverty suggest spiritual righteousness? That is absurd. That is flawed logic. That is the father of lies... planting lies. Solomon was the richest person who ever lived, and he was a man of God. He taught us many things from his failures and possessions, but never the less was a godly man. Shall we condemn him as well? Lack of wealth does not assure godliness, nor does wealth and blessing indicated God's hand at work. We know God's hand is upon us when we give our first fruits, and God blesses us with an outpouring of his love. Are the blessings all in money? or material things? of course not. Children are blessings... should we condemn those who have many wonderful children? or those who do not? again that is absurd... but God is a smart ... and He wants us to receive His blessings to impact others in a positive way. When our gifts/blessings produce peace and joy, as a result of our faithful giving, they are of God.
I don`t think anyone is saying that money in and of itself is bad. But when a preacher with the so called` calling of God` on his life is living in the lap of luxury by selling Gods name or selling some wisdom he believes is from God,that is totally wrong. If he freely received it,then he should freely give it. There is absolutely no excuse for a preacher of God`s word who obtained his wealth from the selling of that word to live like royalty while the very God he represents tells him to feed the poor and needy. Let`s face it...American Christianity is all about the money..it`s big business. God will be the judge but he does give us a spirit of discernment. They wear their custom made suits,drive a mercedes,fly on their private jets,live in a mansion and have the gull to tell the world that the poor need our help and they want you to go in debt and put your LOVE OFFERING on a credit card while they live like kings off the same money you are going in debt for! All hiding behind the name of God. I`m sure they give a portion of those proceeds to the needy but if you have enough left over to live like a king then you are not sacrificing all you can. They should be setting an example. The only example the world gets from them is dishonesty and hypocrisy. They make God the butt of jokes and ridicule with their thievery.
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Old 11-13-2007, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,449 posts, read 14,277,197 times
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These TV evangelists are clever, they know that religion is a terrific business; tax exempt, no worry about raw materials or labor costs, and those who don't buy into it can be threatened with eternal damnation. The preachers understand the importance of marketing, sales, and psychology.
They are the smart ones. For those who open their wallets for preachers I think otherwise...
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Old 11-13-2007, 04:03 PM
 
4,439 posts, read 8,192,595 times
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So who else "shouldn't we judge". Should we not have "judged" the executives at Enron, Arthur Anderson etc? Their charcter could have been called into question long before they committed any illegal act.

Come on.. These "ministers" driving around in $100,000 cars are snake oil salesman. Thats it. The legality of it doesn't matter. You can certainly "judge" someones character BEFORE it reach the point of being illegal. I'm assuming these "ministries" have a board of directors that has a fiduciary responsibility to insure that the funds are spent in a manner that is in accordance with the by-lawas and value statement of that organization. A minister preaching about feeding the poor who drives around in a $100,000 car isn't very responsible in my opinion.

Furthermore the actions of the individuals, seperate from the church itself, can and should be called into question!

What if the minister owned a strip club? It isn't illegal.. but would your interest not be raised a little?

~~BigThirsty stepping down off his soap box~~
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