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Yes, God. To say that the believer can lose his salvation because of sin, or for lack of works, or for losing his faith, is to call God a liar. In His Word He says that His calling and His gifts are irrevocable. If you understand the meaning of the word irrevocable and understand that God is Veracity or absolute truth then you cannot say that the believer can lose his salvation without making God out to be a liar.
2 Tim. 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
1 Thess. 5:24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.
Romans 11:29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
And eternal life is a free gift which God will not revoke.
Romans 5:16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.
Please elaborate--don't use vague descriptions. Define it for me. What does "remain in him" mean? Does that mean I can see rate R movies? Can I dance? Can I drink? Does a person lose their salvation by premarital sex? Or illicit drug use?
What does "remain in him" mean?
Does that mean I can see rate R movies? Can I dance? Can I drink? Does a person lose their salvation by premarital sex? Or illicit drug use?
What does God's Word teach?
Hebrews 10:26-29 "God's call to persevere in faith" Why?
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
the false teachers who secretly introduced heresies are falsely teaching the correct understanding of eternal security to refute passages like Hebrews 10:26-29.
Apparently, according to another poster, Mother Teresa asked the following question.
Mother Theresa
I think there are not many clean hearts among OSAS'ers, if they are counting on that doctrine to be their salvation rather than their obedience to the Lord Jesus.
What would be your problem with preaching obedience as opposed to telling everyone repeatedly that they are saved because of a single decision made a long time ago? How will that help them become better Christians, walking closer to Christ? How does OSAS honor God more than service? Why do not people who live holy lives like Mother Theresa did not spend their time telling others about the "safety" of their one time decision instead of urging them to show obedience by love, sacrifice, giving, and caring?
How does OSAS make for holier living?'
<snip>
Not sure if you understood that the words of Mother Theresa in post #93 were in a quote box:
Quote:
A clean heart is a free heart. A free heart can love Christ with an undivided love in chastity, convinced that nothing and nobody will separate it from his love.
Emphasis is on a clean heart is a free heart. That is the eternal security, a clean heart.
But the rest of the statement still did not answer the question---How does belief in once saved always saved lead Christians to live holier lives?
The answer is---it doesn't!! In fact, it leads to the opposite. I've never seen an OSAS'er say, "Believing in once saved always saved will help you walk closer to Christ, give you a deeper and more meaningful understanding of what it is to obey your Lord, and open your eyes to see the people Jesus saw as needing mercy and kindness and blessing from His children."
No OSAS'er can say that, because most likely the OPPOSITE is true. One is MORE likely to see someone evade their responsibility as a servant of Christ, more likely to lie asleep instead of on watch as Jesus commanded us to be, and more likely to be insensitive to the needs of those He taught us to care for--why? Because there are no consequences for living exactly as the so-called "lost."
Now to me, if one is a true Christian, there is a common sense spiritual intuition that if something doesn't allow one to have a closer walk with Christ and become a more watchful and caring servant, then it doesn't come from Jesus. Why would God endorse a theology that doesn't lead people to be better servants? The answer is, He wouldn't---He doesn't. And people who really want to serve God want to find ways to walk closer to Him and to encourage others to walk closer to Him, not find ways to excuse people from the allegiance they owe the one that they call Lord.
Please don't say that I am calling God a liar. It is merely vicious rhetoric for the fact that I disagree with your interpretations.
Whether you like it or not, it makes God out to be a liar to say that the believer can lose his salvation when God has made it clear that His gifts and calling are irrevocable, and eternal life is clearly stated to be a free gift which therefore will not be revoked. There is nothing to misinterpret concerning the fact that eternal life is freely given and that as a gift it is irrevocable.
Last edited by Michael Way; 08-09-2013 at 08:01 PM..
Mike, you have been too long under your masters who are only in the game for the sake of their bellies. Come out, gain your own understanding before you become just like them.
Yes, God. To say that the believer can lose his salvation because of sin, or for lack of works, or for losing his faith, is to call God a liar. In His Word He says that His calling and His gifts are irrevocable. If you understand the meaning of the word irrevocable and understand that God is Veracity or absolute truth then you cannot say that the believer can lose his salvation without making God out to be a liar.
2 Tim. 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
1 Thess. 5:24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.
Romans 11:29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
And eternal life is a free gift which God will not revoke.
Romans 5:16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.
Mike, you have been too long under your masters who are only in the game for the sake of their bellies. Come out, gain your own understanding before you become just like them.
Resorting to comments such as this merely indicates that you cannot, or at least are unwilling to objectively address the things I have said regarding the believer's eternal security.
You are upset because I said that by saying that the believer can lose his salvation it makes God out to be a liar.
Why do you say that the free gift of eternal life can be revoked when God has plainly stated in His Word that His calling and gifts are irrevocable? And why do you think that it is not making God out to be a liar to claim that God can revoke eternal life which is a free gift, when He has said that He doesn't revoke His gifts?
Yes, God. To say that the believer can lose his salvation because of sin, or for lack of works, or for losing his faith, is to call God a liar. In His Word He says that His calling and His gifts are irrevocable. If you understand the meaning of the word irrevocable and understand that God is Veracity or absolute truth then you cannot say that the believer can lose his salvation without making God out to be a liar.
2 Tim. 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
1 Thess. 5:24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.
Romans 11:29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
And eternal life is a free gift which God will not revoke.
Romans 5:16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep
How about for lack of Faith?
Read the black highlighted part, and then read everything else in that post!!!
And then stop asking me repeat questions which have already been answered earlier on this thread.
Whether you like it or not, it makes God out to be a liar to say that the believer can lose his salvation when God has made it clear that His gifts and calling are irrevocable, and eternal life is clearly stated to be a free gift which therefore will not be revoked. There is nothing to misinterpret concerning the fact that eternal life is freely given and that as a gift it is irrevocable.
If it doesn't bring a closer walk with God, it most likely doesn't come from God. And, if it can be misused and misinterpreted as OSAS is, then it leads to apostasy. When it leads people to a life of laxity versus a life of sacrifice and obedience, it doesn't come from God.
Now it may make you FEEL good, and FEEL secure to believe that, and you can even get to heaven BELIEVING that, as long as you are an obedient servant and fulfill the expectations of Jesus, Paul, James, and John. But if you are not living a life of service, then it might be wise to review your life.
Since I don't hold with OSAS, I spend a lot of time reviewing not only my actions, but my motives, because if my actions aren't motivated by love, then the actions themselves fall short of what my Lord wants of His children. OSAS'ers can lean back, drink their glass of tea and never be concerned about any introspection of their own lives in regard to their role as a servant to God. And I'm sure many of them do just that.
I say again, HOW HAS BEING AN OSAS BELIEVER HELPED ANYONE LIVE MORE CLOSELY TO GOD? And I claim again, that it does not. In fact, it encourages complacency. And because of both of those reasons, it means those who cherry pick the scriptures to emphasize faith above all other commands of the Lord and the apostles--Faith, Works, and Perseverance--don't really believe the whole Bible. They believe the parts that put emphasis on the least amount of service to God. Service to God is almost an afterthought. It's secondary. And that is exactly how the Sadducees and Pharisees of Jesus' day saw serving God--as an afterthought--as something that was fine as long as it didn't interfere with their theology, their sacraments, and yes, even their selfishness.
An OSAS'er at the judgment seat will claim, "Lord, I believed on Jesus, and once long ago I accepted Him as my Savior, I'm ready for my reward."
Those of us who know better will throw ourselves at His feet and cry, "Lord, I believe, help thou mine unbelief. I sought to serve you every day and hope that you are honored in the attempt, if not the outcome. I looked every day--- well, most days, to see if there was anything else I could do that would be pleasing in your sight. There were many times I missed it, and maybe I wasn't looking hard enough. The faith I exercised wasn't exercised once and nevermore and I know it can only be exercised within your grace, but I tried to start with it each day, praying that your grace would see me through the trials and tribulations that I was bound to face as your servant. In your mercy, I pray that you will allow me to continue to be of service to you for the rest of eternity. I make no plea for any special treatment, just that I be allowed to serve you--and more effectively than I did in my life."
Because those of us who know God as a Holy God, make no presumptions about His mercy---because it is HIS mercy. The road to hell is paved with certainty in knowing God's will. But if we wanted to DO His will as much as we want to KNOW His will, we would know it. I don't see many people on the Christian thread wanting to DO God's will, unless they are talking about a one-time decision.
My prayer tonight will be, "Lord, tomorrow will you give me the opportunity to be an angel unaware to some individual(s) to whom You want to bring blessing. Amen."
Can one have assurance of their salvation? Of course. Your faith in the will of God and the finished work of Jesus Christ AND your good works that provide evidence you are one of his elect (Rom 10:8-17; I Thess 1:2-4; II Pet 1:5-11; Heb 6:9-12; Jas 2:14-26). If there is no evidence, then there is no salvation.
We must believe ALL of the Bible. The part about Faith. The part about Repentance. The part about Works. And the part about Perseverance. Divided or scattered man divides the Bible and chooses parts and pieces to fit man-made theology and provide self-justification. The man unified in Jesus Christ sees all these parts come together in the same body to work together to glorify God. No one part can exist without the other. That is for scattered man, who has not found purpose and meaning in the life God gave us.
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If it doesn't bring a closer walk with God
